Bad locker room in Miami?

[woodbuck27]

I think many are not looking at Martin for where he really is in his career. He is neither a rookie who should shut up and take as some argue, nor a veteran who should have been a man and stopped it before it went too far.

I suspect he believed things would be better when his rookie year was done. He has been described as a man who doesn't like to make waves. There is nothing wrong with that. From what has been said, it doesn't seem he was around the team much in the off-season, only when he had to be. So basically he tolerated some off season things and whatever went on in August and September before taking his stand in October. Some reports said he did complain to the coaches about some things that happened.

We are seeing several things that we see in many criminal cases, harassment cases etc. We have the alleged perpetrator and his supporters making him out to be a victim, and we have some blaming the purported victim. All very typical.

Martin seems like a guy who has options, and some who lived and breathed for careers as NFL players may not understand someone who can take it or leave it. Some will protect the NFL at all costs because that is all they had or expect to have. That includes former players. They view a whistleblower as a weak link, and will gladly blame him.

Martin did take a stand and stop what was being done. He left, removing himself from the situation. By doing so, he exposed his team and the NFL. Those blaming him for not taking a stand and stopping what was being done to him are blind. He did take a stand and stop it. Those blaming him are really upset with how he chose to do it.

I agree with all you wrote here Patler and I'll add that IMO he exposed the situation in the correct manner. Nothing would have been solved by confronting Incognito with fists. As it stands now 'the dirty laundry' is being aired. The chips will fall as they may.

[Tony Oday]

They might bring him back to get someone to toughen up Sherrod.

That dude needs some milk! Strengthen those bones

[Guiness]

I blame Martin for not going to OTAs and being viewed as soft from the coaching staff and they task Icognito to toughen him up. I point to all the players that have played with Icognito that say they like the guy. I heard Cory Chavous say that today on the radio. I think Martin has a victim mentality and couldn't deal with the issues as a man and instead acted like a child. He did not bring it up to management, coaches, different team leadership besides Icognito but instead ran home to his parents and said the bad men were being mean.

I dont think Icognito did right by the way but this could and should have been taken care of behind the scenes.

+1 for doing a spectacular job of playing devil's advocate

Good lord I hope that's what you are doing.

[George Cumby]

What is your theory on why Incognito chose Martin to bully?

Do you blame Martin for the choices he made?

Bullies pick those that will allow themselves to be bullied.

"Blame" is perhaps too strong of a word, Martin is, to some degree, responsible for allowing this to happen.

That being said, the coaching staff fucked this up, royally. And, as I stated earlier, the teammates who went along with this, are to varying degrees, complicit.

And Incognito is a turd, don't lose sight of that. He is no victim of circumstances, he is a grade A pile of gooey, runny shit.

[woodbuck27]

Bullies pick those that will allow themselves to be bullied.

"Blame" is perhaps too strong of a word, Martin is, to some degree, responsible for allowing this to happen.

That being said, the coaching staff fucked this up, royally. And, as I stated earlier, the teammates who went along with this, are to varying degrees, complicit.

And Incognito is a turd, don't lose sight of that. He is no victim of circumstances, he is a grade A pile of gooey, runny shit.

It looks to me like Incognito has serious issues that might indeed call for some help in the realm of proper mental health.

Translation ... He might need to have his head checked out.

[Tony Oday]

I am playing devils advocate to a point. I however have no sympathy for a man that gets bullied that does nothing but cry to his parents. You are an adult, talk to the position coach, talk to the OC, talk to the HC, talk to other players you can't tell me that he had no friends on the team or around the league, talk to the GM. I am not saying he has to fight Incognito because that dude sounds like a brawler and could kick some ass but you also can't be a person that allows this to happen.

Now if he did do all that I said then I do have some sympathy if he is just an elite athlete smart nerd that cant make friends and has never stood up for himself.

[Patler]

I agree with all you wrote here Patler and I'll add that IMO he exposed the situation in the correct manner. Nothing would have been solved by confronting Incognito with fists. As it stands now 'the dirty laundry' is being aired. The chips will fall as they may.

Yup, and it is the "chips will fall as they may" aspect of it that I think scares a lot of players and coaches, both current and former. For that reason, they lash out at Martin, because he is the one who made this different by walking out.

[Joemailman]

I am playing devils advocate to a point. I however have no sympathy for a man that gets bullied that does nothing but cry to his parents. You are an adult, talk to the position coach, talk to the OC, talk to the HC, talk to other players you can't tell me that he had no friends on the team or around the league, talk to the GM. I am not saying he has to fight Incognito because that dude sounds like a brawler and could kick some ass but you also can't be a person that allows this to happen.

Now if he did do all that I said then I do have some sympathy if he is just an elite athlete smart nerd that cant make friends and has never stood up for himself.

If certain reports are true, it appears it may have been the coaching staff that sent Incognito after him. If that's the case, he may have felt he had nowhere in the organization to turn. So he left.

[Freak Out]

I do not have an issue with Martin walking out...I also would not have had an issue with Martin if he would have wrapped a garbage can around the idiots head. The whole "team thing" will rarely work without great leadership and respect in the locker room.

[Patler]

I am playing devils advocate to a point. I however have no sympathy for a man that gets bullied that does nothing but cry to his parents. You are an adult, talk to the position coach, talk to the OC, talk to the HC, talk to other players you can't tell me that he had no friends on the team or around the league, talk to the GM. I am not saying he has to fight Incognito because that dude sounds like a brawler and could kick some ass but you also can't be a person that allows this to happen.

Now if he did do all that I said then I do have some sympathy if he is just an elite athlete smart nerd that cant make friends and has never stood up for himself.

Why must he do all of that? Several articles have mentioned briefly that Martin complained "to the team" about the way he was being treated previously. I don't know what that means, but there is a chain of command, and if his complaint was to any coach or team official, the chain of command failed him.

Nothing that I have read indicates he involved his parents in any way, except for going there when he left the team. It's his home, why shouldn't he go there? It seems that he took it upon himself to simply leave the team, deciding that it was a situation he could no longer tolerate. Telling his coaches and team to stick it is no easy task when you are a second year player who has started every game so far and looks to have a lucrative career a head of him.

So far, Martin has given no indication that he wants to or intends to resume an NFL career. I think that bothers a lot of players, because it diminishes the aura of their jobs when a young, successful player simply says "thanks, but no thanks." For that reason, in their minds, he is the one at fault.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Bullies pick those that will allow themselves to be bullied.

Martin didn't allow himself to be bullied, at least in the end. He left, decided he didn't need to put up with the crap.

It's this response that is being criticized by the bozo players and others.


The correct bozo response is to fight back. Prove that you are tough. That's the wolf pack system.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I remember my own cowardice as a first grader. I was bigger and stronger than the other kids, could have whipped any of them. There was this one squirrelly kid that got beat up a lot. The drill was you would go in the bathroom and knock the runt around a bit. I went in the bathroom with kid, and instead of knocking him around, I said lets be friends. But I was too chicken to protect him. Guess I was afraid to be an outsider too, even though I was super shy kid anyway. Pathetic.

[woodbuck27]

Martin didn't allow himself to be bullied, at least in the end. He left, decided he didn't need to put up with the crap.

It's this response that is being criticized by the bozo players and others.


The correct bozo response is to fight back. Prove that you are tough. That's the wolf pack system.

Right and just maybe Jonathan Martin had a right to hope that his NFL world was a civilized one. Can the Miami Organization ever claim it was blind to this harassment story? The facts as their coming out would refute that. The Miami Organization appears guilty of not offering protection to Jonathan Martin with something akin to a school yard / prison yard mentality.

This story rings to me as preposterous in my time as a sports fan.

[Tony Oday]

Why must he do all of that? Several articles have mentioned briefly that Martin complained "to the team" about the way he was being treated previously. I don't know what that means, but there is a chain of command, and if his complaint was to any coach or team official, the chain of command failed him.

Nothing that I have read indicates he involved his parents in any way, except for going there when he left the team. It's his home, why shouldn't he go there? It seems that he took it upon himself to simply leave the team, deciding that it was a situation he could no longer tolerate. Telling his coaches and team to stick it is no easy task when you are a second year player who has started every game so far and looks to have a lucrative career a head of him.

So far, Martin has given no indication that he wants to or intends to resume an NFL career. I think that bothers a lot of players, because it diminishes the aura of their jobs when a young, successful player simply says "thanks, but no thanks." For that reason, in their minds, he is the one at fault.

If he doesnt want a career in the NFL, I would doubt with his mental toughness he will get a shot but hell they give killers, rapists and dog butcherers shots, then he went about it correctly. Said screw you guys Im going home.

If he wants to continue his career that is what you are supposed to do, its a job, you go up the chain of coaching/leadership.

He gave his parents his "evidence" and let them do his dirty work. My son does this too but he is 7.

[red]

guys on the radio were talking about this yesterday and i totally agreed with one of him

martin made the best of a lot of bad choices in a no win for him situation

if he physically goes after richie in the locker room, well thats a giant no no and the team could kick him out with no pay

if you go to the coaches you're a snitch, team hates you

he could have done what too many people are doing these day, he could have gone home, got a gun, and returned to shoot the place up

the guy had enough, turned the other cheek and left, giving up a shitload of money in the process, it wasn't until the media kept digging and digging looking for a reason that things stated to come to lite

the guy was a victim in this whole mess, yet he's being vilified in some circles. if this was any other real workplace (not a professional sports team because lets face it, its not a job to play a fucking game and make million doing it) the shit that ingognito did who have been completely unacceptable and there would be no debate

this whole story has brought to life that we are all sitting here worshiping a game played by a bunch of neanderthals, that should, in a sane world, be regarded as the scum of the earth