Finley To Have Surgery

[red]

maybe chewy shouldn't have tried to fuck that 15 year old in the hot tub after he got her drunk (and probably slipped her a ruffie)

[Patler]

Sean Richardson returned to practice today, I think. He had C5-C6 fusion.

[bobblehead]

Sean Richardson returned to practice today, I think. He had C5-C6 fusion.

I had high hopes, even though I only saw him on special teams, but his size and athleticism impressed me. I think he is probably lost too much time now though.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But its pretty clear that cervical fusion isn't a career ender in and of itself.

At best, he is going to be stiffer.

It's career ending. If he continues his career, he forgoes a $10M insurance payment. The chances of any team committing serious money to him are slim.

Chmura was spot-on with his analysis, and he need not hem-and-haw with "just my opinion" or "according to my experience." He told it like he saw it, the fact that it is his opinion is implicit, but this is a pretty clear situation.

My question is whether Chmura broke a tacit confidence.

[Joemailman]

At best, he is going to be stiffer.

It's career ending. If he continues his career, he forgoes a $10M insurance payment. The chances of any team committing serious money to him are slim.

How does the insurance work though? Does he collect if the doctors say he can continue his career?

[QBME]

How does the insurance work though? Does he collect if the doctors say he can continue his career?

Aye - there's the rub. He'll need all sorts of doctors (personal, team and insurance company) to sign off that he can't play anymore. I seem to recall that Joe Theisman had to go through rehab and conduct work outs to prove he couldn't perform any more in order to collect his insurance money, even though everybody knew he was through after he broke his leg.

[Patler]

How does the insurance work though? Does he collect if the doctors say he can continue his career?

I imagine it works like other disability coverages. The insurance company will have to be convinced that he is unable to continue his career. If their doctors and his disagree, it will probably end up in court.

[MadScientist]

I imagine it works like other disability coverages. The insurance company will have to be convinced that he is unable to continue his career. If their doctors and his disagree, it will probably end up in court.

If no teams will risk signing him, he will have a good case to get the insurance. Perhaps his statements are part of building the case that he is acting in good faith in trying to continue his career, but nobody will take the risk of signing him.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If no teams will risk signing him, he will have a good case to get the insurance.

Right. Plus, I doubt a league minimum offer would count as Finley being able to continue his career. He's defined the earning path of his career.

And what doctor is going to risk his reputation by saying a guy with a fused spine is good to go for the NFL?

Even for simple injuries, you often get different opinions from different doctors, medicine is not an exact science. Why would a doctor commit an all-clear to such a dicey situation?

Fusing any vertebrae has got to be a huge deal - it will change the biomechanics of the whole spine, could cause an increased vulnerability somewhere that isn't obvious.

Everybody's body is different, doesn't it make sense that one such injury suggests this person is more vulnerable to reinjury, regardless of the result of the repair?

BTW, I can't imagine that a receiver or defensive back can be as effective with a less flexible torso. But that's a smaller issue.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I seem to recall that Joe Theisman had to go through rehab and conduct work outs to prove he couldn't perform any more in order to collect his insurance money, even though everybody knew he was through after he broke his leg.

I would think a spinal injury is viewed very differently than a poorly functioning leg, for obvious reasons.

Really, I think this is a no-brainer, nobody is going to tell a guy with a fused spine - and Finley's is pretty high up the back - to get back out there start blocking linebackers.

[QBME]

I would think a spinal injury is viewed very differently than a poorly functioning leg, for obvious reasons.

Really, I think this is a no-brainer, nobody is going to tell a guy with a fused spine - and Finley's is pretty high up the back - to get back out there start blocking linebackers.

Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that insurance companies don't have the reputation of cutting checks without some hoop jumping. This may be a different animal though.

[pbmax]

Right. Plus, I doubt a league minimum offer would count as Finley being able to continue his career. He's defined the earning path of his career.

snip...

And what doctor is going to risk his reputation by saying a guy with a fused spine is good to go for the NFL?

OK, now you are just flapping your keyboard and changing the argument.

Why would it not count as continuing his career if he gets a Doctor and Team to approve his return and he gets a minimum contract? I am not arguing career arc, but a return to game that Chmura has already ruled out.

http://www.healio.com/orthopedics/journals/ortho/%7B28256cb1-108a-4c85-9101-01eeaf5b5f93%7D/lumbar-and-cervical-disk-herniations-in-nfl-players-return-to-action

You Reported 72% of Players Who Underwent Surgery for a Cervical Disk Herniation Successfully Returned to Play, on Average 29 Games over a 2.8-Year Period, Which Was Significantly Longer than that of the Nonoperative Group, in Which only 46% Returned to Play 14 Games over a 1.5-Year Period. What Confounding Factors Could Have Affected This Significant Difference?

Those percentages don't tell us the overall number, but clearly players, with surgery and without are cleared to resume football.

A partial list off the top of my head:

Sean Richardson
Peyton Manning
Keion Carpenter (Safety-Bills)
Chris Weinke
Aaron Smith (not the best outcome 15/40 some games played after that)


Now, if Hot Tub was right about C3-4 being the affected disk, then there could be other considerations. This JSO article mentions that one doctor (Robert Watkins) at least does not recommend returning from a 3-4 fusion because of stress it could put on c1-2. But by implication, Dr. Hsu indicates there are Doctors that will OK a return after a 3-4 fusion. Dr. Joseph Maroon, Steelers team neurosurgeon, will perform Finley's procedure.

Given Nick Collins situation, though again, might involve other factors, I doubt he will return to the Packers.

[Fritz]

OK, now you are just flapping your keyboard and changing the argument.

Why would it not count as continuing his career if he gets a Doctor and Team to approve his return and he gets a minimum contract? I am not arguing career arc, but a return to game that Chmura has already ruled out.

http://www.healio.com/orthopedics/journals/ortho/%7B28256cb1-108a-4c85-9101-01eeaf5b5f93%7D/lumbar-and-cervical-disk-herniations-in-nfl-players-return-to-action

Those percentages don't tell us the overall number, but clearly players, with surgery and without are cleared to resume football.

A partial list off the top of my head:

Sean Richardson
Peyton Manning
Keion Carpenter (Safety-Bills)
Chris Weinke
Aaron Smith (not the best outcome 15/40 some games played after that)


Now, if Hot Tub was right about C3-4 being the affected disk, then there could be other considerations. This JSO article mentions that one doctor (Robert Watkins) at least does not recommend returning from a 3-4 fusion because of stress it could put on c1-2. But by implication, Dr. Hsu indicates there are Doctors that will OK a return after a 3-4 fusion. Dr. Joseph Maroon, Steelers team neurosurgeon, will perform Finley's procedure.

Given Nick Collins situation, though again, might involve other factors, I doubt he will return to the Packers.

Okay, so the Packers placed Finley on IR, correct?

What happens if they do not offer him a contract, but someone else does? Are the Packers awarded a compensation pick?

[Zool]

Okay, so the Packers placed Finley on IR, correct?

What happens if they do not offer him a contract, but someone else does? Are the Packers awarded a compensation pick?

Without knowing the actual answer, I would guess yes. He is a standard unrestricted FA if cleared to play. I believe they could choose to tag him as well.

[MadScientist]

And what doctor is going to risk his reputation by saying a guy with a fused spine is good to go for the NFL?

Even for simple injuries, you often get different opinions from different doctors, medicine is not an exact science. Why would a doctor commit an all-clear to such a dicey situation?

Fusing any vertebrae has got to be a huge deal - it will change the biomechanics of the whole spine, could cause an increased vulnerability somewhere that isn't obvious.

Everybody's body is different, doesn't it make sense that one such injury suggests this person is more vulnerable to reinjury, regardless of the result of the repair?

In this case the increased vulnerability is obvious (or at least known) - fusing vertebrae means that any movement will be spread among fewer flex joints and the problem is even worse for a fast sharp hit (like the one he just got). The motion will be transmitted to the top vertebrae quickly, but much slower past the fusion. The higher the fusion, the higher the risk of paralysis with a hit like this. I agree, if I were an MD, no way would I sign off on Finley's return.

Okay, so the Packers placed Finley on IR, correct?

What happens if they do not offer him a contract, but someone else does? Are the Packers awarded a compensation pick?

If he signs elsewhere he will go into consideration for comp picks, because he will be a UFA. If the Packers had to cut him, like they did with Collins then there would be no comp pick.