Studs & Duds Eagle game

[Patler]

I think it's more execution by the players than the coaching. Some teams have high round picks in the secondary and still can't stop a completion. Shields, Tramon, Jennings were FA castoffs who got coached up, Hyde is a R5 rookie, etc. There isn't a high round pick in the secondary, unless you count Burnett (3rd round). The Vikings, by comparison, have Xavier Rhodes (R1 rookie), Chris Cook (R2 pick), Harrison Smith (R1 pick, albeit injured), Josh Robinson (R3)...and they still can't stop the pass. Gotta think that's more than talent -- coaching and execution matter.

It's a stupid cliche that I hate, but with Rodgers hurt I wonder if players are "trying to do too much", not doing their jobs and playing the scheme.

That said, it would help if they tackled better.

I don't buy that excuse. Lower draft picks and FAs can know their assignments and communicate on the field just as well as top draft picks. Even if they are not blessed with prototypical size and/or athletic ability, they can play with their heads. If the problems were unique to this season with these particular players, that would be one thing. But, many of the problems are not new.

The Packers' defense has given up big plays and more than too much yardage for many (not all) recent seasons, even when they were getting turnovers. It happened in years when Collins and Woodson were there and in their prime years. The only thing different this year is that they are failing to get the turnovers.

I am starting to look at the DBs much the same way that I have OL. The names and faces keep changing, but many of the problems remain the same. That leads me to believe that at least some part of the cause is either coaching or scheme.

[pbmax]

The Packers' defense has given up big plays and more than too much yardage for many (not all) recent seasons, even when they were getting turnovers. It happened in years when Collins and Woodson were there and in their prime years. The only thing different this year is that they are failing to get the turnovers.

I think in some ways the problem in the secondary is worse as far as coaching impact. While each position group has weaknesses (OLine was run blocking for a long time and DBs had trouble with zone) the O Line at least consistently excelled in one area (pass pro) and held its own in others (communication, ability of backups to play).

The D backfield has shown the ability to cover in man (though that has been deteriorating) and pick off passes. But it has often had trouble playing as a unit and has never recovered from losing Collins, who I suspect covered a lot of flaws.

[run pMc]

I meant to suggest that the IMO coaches have actually done a good job with lower draft picks (and presumably lesser talent) compared to other teams, so I'm reluctant to blame the coaches. I think the players are more responsible for their (lack of) performance than the coaches.

When Collins went down the secondary suffered noticably...partially due to his athletic ability, but I suspect also because he was a good communicator. 2011 was pretty miserable and a common excuse was communication issues. This year Burnett was out early and the other safety spot hasn't exactly been very stable/productive with Jennings/McMillian/Banjo vying to snaps. that's a lot of shuffling, and I wonder if there are some resulting communication issues mixing with inexperienced/younger players causing a lot of problems. Tramon has been very inconsistent, and Hayward being hurt hasn't help them at corner, either.

It's a lot of things, no easy answer, but bottom line they need to play better.

[Pugger]

Are they? I know they are said to be, but DBs come and DBs go, yet many of the problems remain the same. Blown coverages, failures to communicate, etc. Every year there are a couple new DBs fpr these excellent coaches to work with, but it never changes.

Maybe they aren't as good as we have been lead to believe.

I've been thinking the same thing. Folks want Capers gone but do we really want these coaches who can't get our DBs to play decently to run the entire defense?

[Pugger]

When EDS went down the interior blocking on the run game really went to hell. Don't know if that is all Lang's fault but they couldn't even get Lacy going against a seven man front.

Didn't we lose Barclay in there too and had to plug in Newhouse who isn't the best run blocking tackle in the world? EDS must be playing better at center than we thought. I hope he can be back on Sunday in NJ.

[Pugger]

I don't buy that excuse. Lower draft picks and FAs can know their assignments and communicate on the field just as well as top draft picks. Even if they are not blessed with prototypical size and/or athletic ability, they can play with their heads. If the problems were unique to this season with these particular players, that would be one thing. But, many of the problems are not new.

The Packers' defense has given up big plays and more than too much yardage for many (not all) recent seasons, even when they were getting turnovers. It happened in years when Collins and Woodson were there and in their prime years. The only thing different this year is that they are failing to get the turnovers.

I am starting to look at the DBs much the same way that I have OL. The names and faces keep changing, but many of the problems remain the same. That leads me to believe that at least some part of the cause is either coaching or scheme.

But I don't know if I'd blast Campen these days. He is getting a rookie 4th round tackle to hold his own on the left side and getting an UDFA center and right tackle to run block like nobody's business. Even after the injuries last Sunday caused guys to move around we still only gave up one sack if memory serves.

[Pugger]

I meant to suggest that the IMO coaches have actually done a good job with lower draft picks (and presumably lesser talent) compared to other teams, so I'm reluctant to blame the coaches. I think the players are more responsible for their (lack of) performance than the coaches.

When Collins went down the secondary suffered noticably...partially due to his athletic ability, but I suspect also because he was a good communicator. 2011 was pretty miserable and a common excuse was communication issues. This year Burnett was out early and the other safety spot hasn't exactly been very stable/productive with Jennings/McMillian/Banjo vying to snaps. that's a lot of shuffling, and I wonder if there are some resulting communication issues mixing with inexperienced/younger players causing a lot of problems. Tramon has been very inconsistent, and Hayward being hurt hasn't help them at corner, either.

It's a lot of things, no easy answer, but bottom line they need to play better.

I think we can all agree SAFETY is a huge need we have to address this offseason - even a bigger need than TE.

[Patler]

Didn't we lose Barclay in there too and had to plug in Newhouse who isn't the best run blocking tackle in the world? EDS must be playing better at center than we thought. I hope he can be back on Sunday in NJ.

Newhouse was in from the time EDS went out, because the O-line shuffle to replace EDS had Lang moving to center, Barclay into Lang's spot at RG, and Newhouse filled in at RT for Barclay. Later, when Barclay was hurt, Lane Taylor came in at RG.

One guy gets hurt, and three positions are changed.

[KYPack]

"Paul Ott Carruth"'s breakdowns are usually interesting.

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/xs-and-0s-capers-or-the-players

Essentially, he's got the Safeties as the big duds on the day. But dings Hawk and Mike Neal for bad decisions on big plays also.

Man, that POC guy really knows his stuff.

The players were in proper schemes, but utterly failed in execution.

[run pMc]

Man, that POC guy really knows his stuff.

The players were in proper schemes, but utterly failed in execution.

Agree. thanks for the link!