a theory

[red]

Sure, but how much of that were they looking to load into Raji's potential contract?

Now, it can go to Shields if they can get something done with him.

doesn't make sense. his cap number was already pretty high this year (6.5 million). his cap number would not have gone up much this year with a new deal

packers did it last year and the year before too i believe. this team does not use all their cap space

[red]

yea, I reject the theory. Yoop summed it up ok. A lot of the guys on the list are performing ok, or just aren't good. A team has its mettle tested when adversity hits. We are being tested and failing right now. The short week off of overtime, yada yada didn't help. How many actual practices has Flynn had? I bet he didn't have time to study any Detroit tendencies.

I'm not hacking ya for floating the theory, I just don't buy it. I blame MM for some things. I think he coaches a soft team. Takes it too easy on guys. I don't think he hardens them for an NFL season. He errs on the side of caution with players. Overall, I think we will see a tougher team come out for Atlanta, Arod or not. If they can get embarrassed like that and not come out pissed then we got HUGE problems.

i agree the guys on the list have been playing well for the most part

but what if younger guys are seeing this and saying "why bother" they don't take care of their own, unless they are elite

[bobblehead]

i agree the guys on the list have been playing well for the most part

but what if younger guys are seeing this and saying "why bother" they don't take care of their own, unless they are elite

Then they won't be on the team for long. I get what you are saying and it does happen. Guys give up on the season and don't play hard. If its happening with some guys they need to be identified and replaced.

Bottom line is that the studs get paid, and the rest toil around at the league minimum. I would say though that guys like Poppinga, Brad Jones, James Jones and some others prove that solid players can get paid by the packers if they are reasonable in their demands. However, reality and perception don't always meet. Some younger players might be frustrated and giving up simply because its not easy. Again, they need to be replaced with high motor self starters.

Parcells always had a mantra about guys who didn't need a coach to motivate them. Guys who just went all the time and never took plays off. Parcells was a winner.

[woodbuck27]

Then they won't be on the team for long. I get what you are saying and it does happen. Guys give up on the season and don't play hard. If its happening with some guys they need to be identified and replaced.

Bottom line is that the studs get paid, and the rest toil around at the league minimum. I would say though that guys like Poppinga, Brad Jones, James Jones and some others prove that solid players can get paid by the packers if they are reasonable in their demands. However, reality and perception don't always meet. Some younger players might be frustrated and giving up simply because its not easy. Again, they need to be replaced with high motor self starters.

Parcells always had a mantra about guys who didn't need a coach to motivate them. Guys who just went all the time and never took plays off. Parcells was a winner.

Bill Parcells:

Where has he gone this season? I havn't seen or heard anything on him.

Hire him to study the Packers as 'a fresh eye'. Help TT cut the deadwood.

It's this 'the Packers are too soft' thing that must be proven wrong.

There's where the focus needs to be centered.

Either ... you prove your all in with training / practising / playing hard or ... your out.

[Pugger]

I highly doubt it. Even if players are pissed they dont have a deal yet they still want to put their performance on tape to help them in upcoming deals.

Plus, looking at the list of free agents, who would you really say has quit? Certainly not Jones or EDS. Pickett is either completely washed up or injured worse than we know. Considering he was playing well just weeks ago I'm going with injury. The only 2 I could potentially see this being a problem with is Raji and maybe Newhouse. A guy has to not care to be playing as poorly as he is.

I don't think Pickett is washed up by any means. He was playing great until he hurt his knee. I don't think the guys have quit but I'm sure they are a discouraged bunch. I were in their shoes I would be too. I know some folks say let's put AR on IR and tank the season but if any team needs something positive and a couple of wins it's our guys. December 8th can't come soon enough.

[red]

Theory #2

Are we having to overpay our own players to keep them, because if we don't, we have to try and draft a replacement who might not work out and who might take 1-3 years to develop into the player that the previous player was

Examples we offered jenning more then anyone else, twice

Brad jones deal that all of us think is insane

The crazy amount of money offered to raji

Making finley the highest paid TE in the nfl this year when he is just above average

Hawks deal

To me it looks like we are being forced to overpay our own guys because the only way we're willing to replace guys is through the draft

Why are we so scared of overpaying in free agency, when we're just fine with overpaying our own shitty players?

[Bretsky]

Theory #2

Are we having to overpay our own players to keep them, because if we don't, we have to try and draft a replacement who might not work out and who might take 1-3 years to develop into the player that the previous player was

Examples we offered jenning more then anyone else, twice

Brad jones deal that all of us think is insane

The crazy amount of money offered to raji

Making finley the highest paid TE in the nfl this year when he is just above average

Hawks deal

To me it looks like we are being forced to overpay our own guys because the only way we're willing to replace guys is through the draft

Why are we so scared of overpaying in free agency, when we're just fine with overpaying our own shitty players?

Many is here tried justisfying the money TT gave to Brad Jones; I thought it was insane and still do
Logic that was used was pointing to Eric Walden's deal. that was insance too
Both are way overpaid

[Bretsky]

Theory #2

Why are we so scared of overpaying in free agency, when we're just fine with overpaying our own shitty players?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[KYPack]

Theory #2

Are we having to overpay our own players to keep them, because if we don't, we have to try and draft a replacement who might not work out and who might take 1-3 years to develop into the player that the previous player was

Examples we offered jenning more then anyone else, twice

Brad jones deal that all of us think is insane

The crazy amount of money offered to raji

Making finley the highest paid TE in the nfl this year when he is just above average

Hawks deal

To me it looks like we are being forced to overpay our own guys because the only way we're willing to replace guys is through the draft

Why are we so scared of overpaying in free agency, when we're just fine with overpaying our own shitty players?

Red, sometimes you are too emotional and come up with some half baked ideas, but...

This time you just might know where the bear shits in the buckwheat.

There are flaws in any personnel strategy. I think most of TT's ideas are sound. But we are getting bit in the ass by the way the league is set up. Even thought Thompson is a draft wiz, we have been drafting from some low spots. this has to get you after a period of time.

We are committed to growing our own tobacco and rolling our own cigs. But anything will decay over time. Thus, it takes us a long time to find out our young boys ain't panning out. So we draft an Alex Green and find out after 3 seasons that he wasn't getting it done. Injuries, sure, but that kid didn't have it. We aren't really hitting our high picks because they aren't as high as other teams high draft choices.

The system is getting us on one hand and on the other, we miss on some guys. Both lines are thin. When you don't have the power in the engine room, you don't have the power.

That said, I don't think there is much of a selection of quality lineman in vet FA. Where do we get the help we need with all our own FA's leaving? We will have to get creative. Sign a couple vet FA's, draft some good guys (& a safety, too) and fish and cut bait with our roster.

A tall order, but something has got to change and work better.

[woodbuck27]

Red, sometimes you are too emotional and come up with some half baked ideas, but...

This time you just might know where the bear shits in the buckwheat.

There are flaws in any personnel strategy. I think most of TT's ideas are sound. But we are getting bit in the ass by the way the league is set up. Even thought Thompson is a draft wiz, we have been drafting from some low spots. this has to get you after a period of time.

We are committed to growing our own tobacco and rolling our own cigs. But anything will decay over time. Thus, it takes us a long time to find out our young boys ain't panning out. So we draft an Alex Green and find out after 3 seasons that he wasn't getting it done. Injuries, sure, but that kid didn't have it. We aren't really hitting our high picks because they aren't as high as other teams high draft choices.

The system is getting us on one hand and on the other, we miss on some guys. Both lines are thin. When you don't have the power in the engine room, you don't have the power.

That said, I don't think there is much of a selection of quality lineman in vet FA. Where do we get the help we need with all our own FA's leaving? We will have to get creative. Sign a couple vet FA's, draft some good guys (& a safety, too) and fish and cut bait with our roster.

A tall order, but something has got to change and work better.

TT is definitely scrathin' his head now and feeling (maybe?) a tad hot at the back of his neck.

What we see now is best left to >>> a wait and see approach.

That first before we hit 'the Panic Switch' and demand that everyone gets flushed down the toilet.

A lot of pressure on Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy right now to do the exact right things. Let's hope their really intelligent.

PACKERS !

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

TT is definitely scrathin' his head now and feeling (maybe?) a tad hot at the back of his neck.

What we see now is best left to >>> a wait and see approach.

That first before we hit 'the Panic Switch' and demand that everyone gets flushed down the toilet.

A lot of pressure on Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy right now to do the exact right things. Let's hope their really intelligent.

PACKERS !

As long as part of the exact right things is to flush Capers and Slocum down the toilet....just saying.