Is it too early to talk offseason?

[bobblehead]

I hope we are still in the playoff hunt after today, but we need something to discuss other than MM and TT sucking and the ongoing comedy of injuries.

I am making this a general discussion of offseason activity (not draft thread, that is separate).

I will start by saying MM takes my suggestion from TC last year and moves Micah Hyde to safety. We need a safety. Hyde is a bit slow for CB imo, but has the heart and instincts of a safety. I don't think he will ever be a stud, but a solid guy who can play ST and do a variety of things...he is a football player.

I also think we will enter next TC with Bulaga back at RT and Bach playing LT, but it will be a ruse. Sherrod, if healthy will supplant Bach in quick time. The OL will open the year:

Sherrod, Sitton, Tretter, Lang, Bulaga barring injury. Bacteria will back up the tackles and Barclay the guards. EDS? Not sure of his contract, but he is a nice interior backup. That would be 8 spots taken. It would also be the best OL of MM's tenure.

[red]

i think the move for hyde to safety seems almost natural. he gets his nose up near the line, he can cover, he can blitz, and he seems pretty smart. if they don't move hyde then they absolutely have to do something at safety, and there isn't a lot in the draft. i would be ecstatic if we could grab a guy in free agency for around 4 million a year that already knows how to play the position

i don't know if sherrod is in the cards for next year. he's healthy. he's playing on special teams, but he can't get any playing time on a line that is just completely worthless? i don't know. i think maybe the guy has missed too much schooling the last 2 or 3 years. he's like a kid that missed 3rd, 4th and 5th grade and all of a sudden we think he's going to be fine if we throw him in 6th grade. and i'm still not sold on Bach, he scares the hell out of me right now protecting the blind side. that football focus or football insiders article that someone gave us showed that he's been our worst performing player all year. remember, we thought newhouse had a decent year at LT for most of last season

and getting another d-coord should be priority #1. we need a guy with a stable system in there.

[woodbuck27]

It seems to me bobblehead that there is already threads on Packerrats that delve into off season matters. Is it ever too early to be thinking/planning the future? I don't believe so.

Were not solving much as a forum if the focus of what's wrong with the Packers is predominately based in finger pointing.

I use a sense of humor and MM and TT. That's my manner of dealing with frustration and either of these vital sources of the teams true strength. Sometimes I fail in terms of patience. These men are important to the teams success in so many terms. I want Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy to deliver more success.

I'm not one to look at last season or 2-3-4 seasons ago; as a fan hand out credit that should be based in today to get the team to tomorrow. At the same time I acknowledge that guide that a strong predictor of the future lies in the past. Thus ....I'm torn there. The final determination for me is an accurate scale for grading everyone in the Packer organization.

Specific issues I have as a Packer fan:

As a fan I'm too frequently wondering where in blazes is Ted Thompson. I want that man to be more visable...more confident. To demonstrate some constant growth to me. That's my clear focus as a Packer fan and TT. Ted Thompson is recognized as very special. I'm seldom going to let up on him because of any of that, when I want more of that. I expect to see change and more more more from Ted Thompson. I have to give that here at Packerrats and I try to meet that challenge inspite of any of you clowns that maul and condemn.

MM needs to be his own man. I'm the type that never respects anyone that kiss's up. I don't join the popular crowd because that doesn't challenge me.

bobblehead your suggestion of moving Micah Hyde to the Safety position.

** How solid / strong / fast is he? I've got him at 6'-0" and weighing just under 200 lbs. with 4:45 40/Y speed.

** How well does he tackle? What are his get to the ball instincts?

** How much does he act out or show boat?

** What's his dedication to the video room? How hard does he practise and how free is he in terms of communication with his coach's?

** Is he commitment to growing as a DB in Green Bay? Does he appreciate the Green Bay Packer organization in terms of respecting his opportunity in Green Bay?

Lots of questions and lots more....

GO PACK GO !

[Joemailman]

A lot of people had Hyde projected as a safety in last year's draft. I like him too and agree he's a football player. Is he an NFL starting-caliber Safety? I'm not sure, but I'm for anything that gets M.D. Jennings off the field on defense.

The offensive line will be interesting. In my opinion, the 5 most talented guys are Bulaga, Sherrod, Sitton, Bakhtiari and Lang, without having seen Tretter yet. Hopefully they can find a Center out of one of those guys.

To me though, the big question of the offseason is whether MM will fire his defensive staff. In my opinion, the defense is now an underachieving group, and a change needs to be made.

[woodbuck27]

A lot of people had Hyde projected as a safety in last year's draft. I like him too and agree he's a football player. Is he an NFL starting-caliber Safety? I'm not sure, but I'm for anything that gets M.D. Jennings off the field on defense.

The offensive line will be interesting. In my opinion, the 5 most talented guys are Bulaga, Sherrod, Sitton, Bakhtiari and Lang, without having seen Tretter yet. Hopefully they can find a Center out of one of those guys.

To me though, the big question of the offseason is whether MM will fire his defensive staff. In my opinion, the defense is now an underachieving group, and a change needs to be made.

As fans we must clearly determine if it's coaching or personnel and ample talent and depth on the roster.

A coach has to have the talent to work with. That has to come from the GM.

Let's not shift gears too fast here before we clearly define the problem.

[red]

they just talked about the cowboys and their shitty d on NFLN. Sapp said that they don't have the players to fit the scheme, thats why we keep saying the mistakes over and over again. where have we heard that before?

its players or scheme. we're as healthy on d right now as we've been in 4 or 5 years, can't blame injuries. capers is not going to adjust his scheme, he's never done it, never will. thats his scheme, thats what you get. so, either you get rid of almost all the players on the d (because they're all lost) and start from scratch, only through the draft no less. in which case you're throwing away the next couple of seasons why those guys develop. or you get rid of capers and his scheme, get a new guy, and maybe throw away a season or two why those guys try to learn a new system

i say, bring in a new guy with a simpler scheme, because lets face it, our guys are two fucking stupid to learn a complicated one

[Tony Oday]

My guess is Jolly, Williams, Pickett, Brad Jones and Jennings are all gone from the defense.

Kuhn, Jones, Finley and Newhouse gone from the offense.

Defensive staff besides Greene are gone, Slocum gone.

We will replace all these guys with the draft, street free agents and two Vet signings on the d line and at safety.

[pbmax]

Free Agency Possible: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...236900451.html

Hyde to Safety Possible (according to Whitt and McGinn): http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...236838031.html

[pbmax]

they just talked about the cowboys and their shitty d on NFLN. Sapp said that they don't have the players to fit the scheme, thats why we keep saying the mistakes over and over again. where have we heard that before?

its players or scheme. we're as healthy on d right now as we've been in 4 or 5 years, can't blame injuries. capers is not going to adjust his scheme, he's never done it, never will. thats his scheme, thats what you get. so, either you get rid of almost all the players on the d (because they're all lost) and start from scratch, only through the draft no less. in which case you're throwing away the next couple of seasons why those guys develop. or you get rid of capers and his scheme, get a new guy, and maybe throw away a season or two why those guys try to learn a new system

i say, bring in a new guy with a simpler scheme, because lets face it, our guys are two fucking stupid to learn a complicated one

I am beginning to think coaching is a part of this as well. But I am not sure its adjustments in scheme to players. Capers has adjusted a lot and it has been both good and bad.

He has moved the D line around from a static 3-4 front to his Eagle Oakie with Raji at essentially a 3 tech. He has played 2 safeties deep as well as a lot of 1 safety. About the only thing he has not had are true zone corners. Only Hayward seemed natural at that. Williams and Woodson could do it, but it was mixed results (Wood could at least clean up a catch with a tackle).

I think the next DC has to have more of a say in personnel kept on the roster. I think there are too many different types of defenders back there.

[woodbuck27]

they just talked about the cowboys and their shitty d on NFLN. Sapp said that they don't have the players to fit the scheme, thats why we keep saying the mistakes over and over again. where have we heard that before?

its players or scheme. we're as healthy on d right now as we've been in 4 or 5 years, can't blame injuries. capers is not going to adjust his scheme, he's never done it, never will. thats his scheme, thats what you get. so, either you get rid of almost all the players on the d (because they're all lost) and start from scratch, only through the draft no less. in which case you're throwing away the next couple of seasons why those guys develop. or you get rid of capers and his scheme, get a new guy, and maybe throw away a season or two why those guys try to learn a new system

i say, bring in a new guy with a simpler scheme, because lets face it, our guys are two fucking stupid to learn a complicated one

Bad 'A' or Bad 'B'. Bad 'A' Vs Bad 'B' ?

Therein lies the question.

[woodbuck27]

My guess is Jolly, Williams, Pickett, Brad Jones and Jennings are all gone from the defense.

Kuhn, Jones, Finley and Newhouse gone from the offense.

Defensive staff besides Greene are gone, Slocum gone.

We will replace all these guys with the draft, street free agents and two Vet signings on the d line and at safety.

I agree with a lot of your assessment RE: the Roster.

ST's:

I don't see all the Coach's gone. I certainly believe that Shawn Slocum is back in 2014. Why? Punting and kicking have improved from 2012 ... stepped up. That will be enough for Slocum and a pass in 2013.

Also... look at his profile **on Wikipedia for some clue as to why I believe he's safe. There's some history there in Slocum's favor. That may be a reason to date why he's survived.

** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Slocum

Defense:

If Ryan Pickett and Johnny Jolly unable to return for any reason and BJ Raji out of Green Bay? ... (see Pickett and Jolly).

That's a huge hole right there in the 3-4 base 'D'.

Do we stay with the 3-4 base (Dom Capers?) or move to a base 4-3 'D' see CM III. See a grade on the LB position ...generally.

TT what's up with the rumors and CB Sam Shields and $Big Offer$ or leaving? Where are you at CB minus Sam Shields?

Offense:

TT sign James Jones 'yesterday'. You need a ton of help again on 'D' Sir.

TT where are you going at Center and EDS? With Marshall Newhouse? Are you pleased with the development of Don Barkley?

TT are you placing a priority on drafting a WR? TT are you sticking with drafting BPA? TT... If it's BPA TT then what if the BPA is always on the offensive side of the ball? The DEFENSE TT?

PACKERS !

[Smeefers]

Dom capers is a pretty conservative coach. He likes to keep the base vanilla D up when they're tied or playing from behind, but he dials up the exotic when we're playing from the lead. Thats why you used to see all those picks in years past. Without the high powered offense, he just doesn't have the ability to take big chances. There has to be a better way. It can't be either feast or famine.

As for hyde at safety, I'll leave that up to Darren Perry. You gotta admit that he does a pretty solid job with the talent they give him, even if they're not perfect, I still think we have a pretty good secondary - minus our gaping hole at safety.

I don't think either of our tackles are much good. I think Barclay has peaked and that puts him at a serviceable short term back up. I think Back did as well as could be expected for our last resort at that position. Bulaga and Tretter where ahead of him, but he's played admirably. He'll have a shot next year and this year will only help him. I'm no longer impressed, but the jury is still out.

It would be nice to see a little free agency work by TT next year but I don't expect it. If there's a steal to be had, I fully expect TT to pursue it. A la To y Gonzalas, Steven Jackson, C wood and Ryan Pickett. He may not hit, but he will attempt it.

The real thing TT has to do is not miss on his draft class. We got crazy lucky stealing Eddy Lacy in the second round. There wasn't a lot of question on the guy but we still passed on him. We can't have that crap any more. I hate no name 1st round picks. Sherrod, datone Jones, Justin Harrell. Those left field "project" picks just make me sigh and shake my head. Raji, rodgers, bulaga - those guys made me happy. Sadly for me, its not just about the first rounders. When he has a bad draft class, we feel it a few years down the road, so for me to think TT has succeeded, he has to pull 2 to 3 starters out of a draft class with at least two solid back ups. The way our team goes, in 2 years, a third of our team is going to be gone and some of the are going to be big names. Gotta replace them.