Defensive Overhaul

[Bretsky]

YOu give me one example of a guy who is slightly overpaid. At the end of last season he emerged as a reasonable cover guy. His contract was not back loaded or dangerous. He hasn't lived up to it, we can cut him anytime. I am pretty sure when most here talk FA, they aren't talking about a guy signing for $4 million a year, they want TT to sign Albert Haynsworth for $15 million a year, with 60 million in dead money.

Jermichael Finley was overpaid. I was fine with the deal but in retrospect would we have been better off letting him go and investing elsewhere ?
Those are off the top of my head; if you dig into deals it would not be hard to find others

[bobblehead]

I don't think your last assumption is fair at all; we aren't calling for a Haynesworth. I thnk that mentality has been gone for a long time. Brad Jones, was an is ridiculously overpaid. He had some nice stints last year but he's a backup and his body of work shows that. He's an obvious example. Tyrone Williams is overpaid. You asked for examples. FWIW I was on board with the Tramon Williams signing from the start so I only bring this up because some others thought we overpaid him from the start. Brad Jones....I was never on board with him. We all thoght Eric Walden was ridiculously overpaid...but some used that to try to justify paying Brad Jones. Never bought into that.

You say Brad Jones is overpaid, I say he is paid on the low end of starting ILB...which is what his talent dictates. Tramon? NOt even a comparison. The man was an absolute monster and key to us winning the superbowl. He hasn't quite been the same since the shoulder injury, but he absolutely earned that contract. If we had let him walk, TT would be getting crucified for it. TT agreed with you re: Walden...that is why he is gone. And for Finley, we 2 year franchised him with the option to cut him after one. That wasn't a bad deal at all. Show me ANY GM that gets an up and comer to sign a 2 year deal with very little up front. We got a chance to see if he developed or not. That too was a good deal.

I would love to see the armchair GM's run a team. Well, I would sign Jared Allen and Julius Peppers to be my bookends for 3 mill a year each and then I would trade a 6th for Calvin Johnson...I might have to throw in James Jones to make the deal. Sadly TT has to live in the real world, and in the real world we have a superbowl, a 15-1 season, and a hell of a playoff streak going...going...we'll see if its gone.

[wist43]

Good to see you Wist. You've been missed. George even had to start a "Fire Spray Paint Hare!" (sic) thread in your honor with all of the defensive meltdowns happening early in Rodgers' absence.

lol... good to see you guys.

I'm still not full speed - but feeling a bit better. Having to make a lot of life changes, but hopefully will be in better shape in the coming year.

Haven't watched much of our Packers this year, but looked at the box scores and highlights (lowlights) - yes, still want a new DC

[Bretsky]

You say Brad Jones is overpaid, I say he is paid on the low end of starting ILB...which is what his talent dictates. Tramon? NOt even a comparison. The man was an absolute monster and key to us winning the superbowl. He hasn't quite been the same since the shoulder injury, but he absolutely earned that contract. If we had let him walk, TT would be getting crucified for it. TT agreed with you re: Walden...that is why he is gone. And for Finley, we 2 year franchised him with the option to cut him after one. That wasn't a bad deal at all. Show me ANY GM that gets an up and comer to sign a 2 year deal with very little up front. We got a chance to see if he developed or not. That too was a good deal.

I would love to see the armchair GM's run a team. Well, I would sign Jared Allen and Julius Peppers to be my bookends for 3 mill a year each and then I would trade a 6th for Calvin Johnson...I might have to throw in James Jones to make the deal. Sadly TT has to live in the real world, and in the real world we have a superbowl, a 15-1 season, and a hell of a playoff streak going...going...we'll see if its gone.

Brad Jones was not a strating calibur ILB. He's a backup and his body of work supports that.
As I noted I suported Tramon Williams signing but you asked me for who was overpaid and I gave it to you. You can choose to nitpick every name I throw out there if you want to based on your bias. I can come up with several more guys that are overpaid based on my bias and their production. Every team has some guys who are overpaid. I also noted I was fine with the Finley deal....but he was overpaid based on his production.

And as I had noted we can make the same decisions with other free agents as we can our own. Not signing free agents is not the Holy Grail of all solutions to run a team. There are different ways to get to the end goal. I don't think I'm an extremist either way but I can acknowledge that point.

[bobblehead]

Brad Jones was not a strating calibur ILB. He's a backup and his body of work supports that.
As I noted I suported Tramon Williams signing but you asked me for who was overpaid and I gave it to you.

I should have been more clear. I meant who was given a contract that was not deserved. I guess you could argue Clay is overpaid too since he isn't playing. And Rodgers. Certainly Morgan Burnett is overpaid.

FA has exactly one purpose. To fill a hole that you will not be able to fill in house or through the draft. If there are no safeties available in the draft this year worth a shit, we should sign one. Our other plans have not worked out. However I am a firm believer in the chemistry theory. You could sign a guy who is available that suddenly isn't so good in your system. Maybe he doesn't have very good study habits. By signing your own, you largely know what you are getting. Signing someone for more money than his previous team was willing to give him...well, you might take a hint.

[Bossman641]

Way too early to give up on Perry IMO. He had 3 sacks through the Baltimore game (5 games) and was part of a stout run defense. Of course, the injuries to himself and others have killed the run D since then.

[woodbuck27]

I should have been more clear. I meant who was given a contract that was not deserved. I guess you could argue Clay is overpaid too since he isn't playing. And Rodgers. Certainly Morgan Burnett is overpaid.

FA has exactly one purpose. To fill a hole that you will not be able to fill in house or through the draft. If there are no safeties available in the draft this year worth a shit, we should sign one. Our other plans have not worked out. However I am a firm believer in the chemistry theory. You could sign a guy who is available that suddenly isn't so good in your system. Maybe he doesn't have very good study habits. By signing your own, you largely know what you are getting. Signing someone for more money than his previous team was willing to give him...well, you might take a hint.

It's time we take stock of who is/isn't on the roster for the 2014 season. This question of the Packer Defense and is it coaching or roster talent or part both? Good question but isn't it moot or doesn't it have to be weighed looking at the first picture?

Don't we have to count the chickens in the barnyard first?

Which upcoming UFA'a and RFA'a have been signed by GM Ted Thompson is a BIG NOT. That man is very generous with Green Bay Packer CAP money and it's a blessing in disguise that to date and looking into this off season no one has yet to bite on TT's generosity.

What's up with that?

We're aware of the fair offer to BJ Raji and possibly your aware of some rather nice $multi Million dollar package$ offered to CB Sam Shields. I'm getting that at around $40 Milllion$ The latest I read on that. Don't expect that to happen.

My interpretation from this is that RCB Sam Shields will be leaving Green Bay when he finds work elsewhere.

Isn't that the same and BJ Raji !? There both out of here! Green Bay isn't their idea of a good cup of tea.

Don't even imagine who you would cut /keep. Who in blue blazes wants to remain a Green Bay Packer?

Is there any one member on this board that has a real clue RE: TT signing "First Team members" ... NT Ryan Pickett, DE Johnny Jolly, DE BJ Raji and CB Sam Shields. Others DE CJ Wilson and OLB/DE "hybride" Mike Neal, ILB Jamari Lattimore and LB Rob Francois and FS's MD Jennings and Chris Banjo?

No you don't !

While I'm here. On the offense side of the ball: First Team members... WR James Jones; RB James Starks; C Evan Dietrich-Smith; TE's Jermichael Finley and Andrew Quarless; OT Marshall Newhouse and FB John Kuhn.

That's a lot of chickens set to try and fly the coop.

Any concerns there Packer fans? Does Packer GM Ted Thompson have any concerns?

Maybe all your trust is in Ted Thompson?


PACKERS !

[denverYooper]

Shields isn't going anywhere.

[ThunderDan]

Just looked at the SEA team. If I counted correctly they will have 14 free agent or restricted free agent players after this season. That's 26% of their 2013 roster.

Every team faces turnover. There are only so many players you can sign for $8,000,000+ per year as NFL studs before you can't afford anyone else to play with them.

The Packers will have the same issues as every other team. Who on the team is worth keeping and for how much money?

[mraynrand]

Way too early to give up on Perry IMO. He had 3 sacks through the Baltimore game (5 games) and was part of a stout run defense. Of course, the injuries to himself and others have killed the run D since then.

Some of these guys you just have no idea what they'd be like playing at 100% - and playing along side other defenders also at 100%. It's a solid defense that really makes playmakers stand out, because teams can't gang up on them.

[woodbuck27]

Shields isn't going anywhere.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/11/29/nfl-packers-sam-shields-in-talks-for-contract-extension/3786259/

* As Packers collapse, Sam Shields could cash in

Tom Pelissero, USA TODAY 5:37 p.m. EST November 29, 2013

That says that negotiations are ongoing on a multi-year contract extension with CB Sam Shields. That was 4 weeks ago. Sure so what that's just 4 weeks ago but....

Before that *, we had this **:

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/for-packers-price-tag-on-sam-shields-extension-keeps-growing

** For Packers, Price Tag on Sam Shields Extension Keeps Growing

By: Zach Kruse on Oct 21, 2013

Before that **, we had this ***:

*** Sam Shields signs Sam Shields signs RFA tender with Green Bay Packers - NFL.com

https://www.nfl.com/.../sam-shields-signs-rfa-tender-with-g...

Jun 3, 2013

Before that *** we had this ****.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/16/4230496/packers-sam-shields-extension-talks

**** Packers explore long-term extension with Sam Shields

By Adam Stites  @AdamBCC on Apr 16 2013, 10:50 AM

I read somewhere in my internet 'all things Green Bay Packers) travels just last week. That the rumor is that things appear to have gone south regarding further Packers negotiations with Sam Shields. To NOT expect Sam Shields back in 2014.

We'll see and I'm simply the messenger and such news doesn't seem good to me. I see Sam Shields now as our teams best overall and most consistent defender in the secondary. I hope that Ted Thompson can sign him.

Those truly in the know are 'Packers contract negotiator' Russ Ball Vice President of Football Administration/ Player Finance, Ted Thompson and Sam Shields and his agent. Things there seem slow but 'in fact' may be right on course.

Just like the news we're waiting for today on Aaron Rodgers. We must be patient and take "a whatever will be will be" position.

GO PACK GO ! ... PACKERS !!

[Bossman641]

If worst comes to worst with Shields we can franchise him. Is he worth that kind of money? I don't know, but it's not as though we have no options.

I still think he signs a long term deal.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think there are a lot of reasons the D sucks.

1. Sustained success = less talent on roster due to drafting lower

The Colts went through this too. When you are picking at the bottom year after year, it is tough to keep talent when you don't sign FA. The Patriots have gone through it, too, but they keep the cabinet stocked by utilizing trades and strategic free agency. Another reason they are significantly ahead of everyone else in terms of consistent success. Best franchise in the league by a mile.

2. Injury prone draft picks

Mike Neal can't stay healthy. Even this year he never practices. Clay is hurt annually and misses a few games. Perry is consistently hurt. Brad Jones is always hurt. The linebackers consistently yet - not surprising given the injury epidemic there. At least Hawk is available. That's more than we can say for the rest.

3. Poor drafting

I think TT is a little overrated and a lot of his success can be attributed to Rodgers and Favre. Having said that, have to credit him with Rodgers. It seems to me that the quality of drafts have really dropped over the past 3-4 years when McKenzie, Schneider, the dude in KC, etc departing.

He hasn't drafted a star since 2009. We can give him epic credit for Clay, but Raji is a pretty big bust in my opinion for his draft position. Bulaga (can't stay on the field), Sherrod (Can't get on the field), Perry (Can't stay on the field) and Jones (Can't get on the field) have not been impressive at all for #1 picks. The #2 picks haven't been great, either.

I'm not suggesting TT has to go or anything like that, but it is clear that he is responsible for the quality of the roster and it is significantly less talented than the 2010 super bowl team.

[run pMc]

I think the futures of Shields and Tramon are tied together, thanks to the salary cap.
Was curious about SEA...found a couple of links.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1860605-an-in-depth-look-into-whats-ahead-for-the-seattle-seahawks-2014-offseason

Part of the problem is that the Seahawks "overspent" this season. The Seahawks rolled over approximately $13 million on cap space from 2012 and used that extra cap space to spend $10.5 million more than the league salary cap for this season.

By rolling over just $2.5 million from this season into 2014, the Seahawks have set up a scenario for the team's total budget for 2014 that will actually be less than what they have spent in 2013.

http://overthecap.com/futurefreeagents.php?Team=Seahawks

If this is correct, 2014 will be a cakewalk compared to 2015 (Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman) and 2016 (R. Okung, R. Wilson, several other major contributors).

[run pMc]

Agree that draft position matters, as do injuries. I think TT has drafted pretty well, but he whiffed on the 2012 all-D draft. We can say this team goes nowhere without Rodgers, but it's a QB-centric league, and TT drafted Rodgers too. I'm glad he didn't swap with WAS and take Jason Campbell.

I've always thought his R2 picks seemed to work out better than his R1 picks --
Collins, Jennings, Jordy, Cobb, Hayward, and a few that were so-so but at least contributed (Daryn Colledge, Brandon Jackson) to a SB win.