FOR THOSE WHO HATE CAPERS.....

[Pugger]

Given the fact that young and (I believe) talented players like House, McMillian and Burnett don't seem to have progressed, I sometimes wonder if the position coaches are as much of the problem as Capers.

I've been wondering about our secondary coaches for a while and was always surprised when some folks touted one of them as a future DC.

[mraynrand]

I'm not sure; I'd be fine with it. I want Ray Horton.

Ya know, Horton's defense In Cleveland sucked pretty bad when it mattered most - holding fourth quarter leads.

[red]

I am beginning to believe that Campen's biggest problem is that they kept trying to force him to run zone blocking without actually letting his guys practice it. Makes his job real tough.

i've been thinking about how our o-line plays and i've been trying to figure out how to ask the question i want to ask the right way

when i watch a lot of teams, and from everything i've ever need taught or told, the battle on the lines is an all out war. the lines engage and is a grapple fight.

when i see our line play, the first thing all the guys do is step backwards, sometimes more then one step. they don't engage. its almost like they are trying to play defense in basketball, they're just trying to keep their assignments in front of them for as long as possible before they engage

i don't really want to use the term dancing bears, but to me its a lot like that

by the time they do stop retreating and engage, they are in the QB's lap, there is no pocket, and the qb needs to run for his life. i notice this most with the tackles, they seem to almost use a pincer type motion where they both almost meet up behind the QB (if that makes any sense), this allows the DE's to get into wide open space and in a nice 1 v 1 battle against bigger slower O-tackles

i see multiple problems with this. one being, instead of staying tight, your o-line spreads way the hell out allowing all kinds of holes for guys to come blitzing through. if one guy gets beat, there is no one right there to help out. and if you don't engage the defenders, you allow them to get their hands up and knock down throws, like we see against us quite a bit

now i'm no O-line guru. and i wanted to post this as more of a question to the guys who do know about o-lines.

and i seeing it right, are we doing this? should we be doing this?

it just seems like our goal is to just delay the attack, not neutralize it

[red]

one thing i do know about our d is that we're ranked way down around dead last right now. and we started the year very strong

we pretty much had to be the worse defense in the whole nfl over the last half of the season for us to fall as far as we have

and no, injuries is not the only reason why we are so bad on that side of the ball

[bobblehead]

i've been thinking about how our o-line plays and i've been trying to figure out how to ask the question i want to ask the right way

when i watch a lot of teams, and from everything i've ever need taught or told, the battle on the lines is an all out war. the lines engage and is a grapple fight.

when i see our line play, the first thing all the guys do is step backwards, sometimes more then one step. they don't engage. its almost like they are trying to play defense in basketball, they're just trying to keep their assignments in front of them for as long as possible before they engage

i don't really want to use the term dancing bears, but to me its a lot like that

by the time they do stop retreating and engage, they are in the QB's lap, there is no pocket, and the qb needs to run for his life. i notice this most with the tackles, they seem to almost use a pincer type motion where they both almost meet up behind the QB (if that makes any sense), this allows the DE's to get into wide open space and in a nice 1 v 1 battle against bigger slower O-tackles

i see multiple problems with this. one being, instead of staying tight, your o-line spreads way the hell out allowing all kinds of holes for guys to come blitzing through. if one guy gets beat, there is no one right there to help out. and if you don't engage the defenders, you allow them to get their hands up and knock down throws, like we see against us quite a bit

now i'm no O-line guru. and i wanted to post this as more of a question to the guys who do know about o-lines.

and i seeing it right, are we doing this? should we be doing this?

it just seems like our goal is to just delay the attack, not neutralize it

Answering this is a really long post, and I'm watching the game atm, BUT, when pass blocking you do take a step back for a couple reasons. One is you have the room, 2 is that you can't go forward (illegal man downfield), 3 is that you need to look over what is coming to know your assignment, 4 is that you need room to react to any move the DL puts on you, and to adjust your assignment if a blitzer comes inside (depending on the call, OL usually block inside, but at the pro level I imagine its not that black and white).

In run blocking you fire out hard and engage your assignment which you should know by the time the ball is snapped. You lock onto that guy and drive. Should virtually never step back.

[woodbuck27]

He is a good DC...but a god awful HC. I would take him if we unleash Capers.

Yea he looks like a decent fit in Green Bay.

Problem is this:

Dom Capers would have to retire.

[Iron Mike]

I don't care. All I saw all weekend was a defense that could get pressure and OL that could keep pressure off. Could you imagine if we had that??? We'd be sooooo awesome.

[red]

I don't care. All I saw all weekend was a defense that could get pressure and OL that could keep pressure off. Could you imagine if we had that??? We'd be sooooo awesome.

exactly

you just have to watch other teams play to see just how bad our defense, special teams and o-line really are

[Bossman641]

Answering this is a really long post, and I'm watching the game atm, BUT, when pass blocking you do take a step back for a couple reasons. One is you have the room, 2 is that you can't go forward (illegal man downfield), 3 is that you need to look over what is coming to know your assignment, 4 is that you need room to react to any move the DL puts on you, and to adjust your assignment if a blitzer comes inside (depending on the call, OL usually block inside, but at the pro level I imagine its not that black and white).

In run blocking you fire out hard and engage your assignment which you should know by the time the ball is snapped. You lock onto that guy and drive. Should virtually never step back.

This, the first step in pass blocking is always backwards...unless you are doing a cut block.

I am tired of seeing our OL walked back though. Bakh is too weak and needs a year of strength training. Barclay might just not be good enough.

[Iron Mike]

This, the first step in pass blocking is always backwards...unless you are doing a cut block.

I am tired of seeing our OL walked back though. Bakh is too weak and needs a year of strength training. Barclay might just not be good enough.

It is what is it, though......how many years do we need to whine before we get coaching in the trenches???

[Iron Mike]

How often do we need to see Brees get all day to throw, or Kaeperick or Wilson get all day to throw, do we realize, our line coaches suck????

[woodbuck27]

How often do we need to see Brees get all day to throw, or Kaeperick or Wilson get all day to throw, do we realize, our line coaches suck????

I say be accurate with a report card and get rid of anyone graded below a C.

Toss all of them and take two seasons to re-build.

Do it now not after next season.

[Iron Mike]

I say be accurate with a report card and get rid of anyone graded below a C.

Toss all of them and take two seasons to re-build.

Do it now not after next season.

I'm pretty sure the talent is there......it's coaching at this point.

[wist43]

I agree with Mike... I like our talent okay. Would like to have some more experience, and some better LB's. Perry and Neal are not ideal fits on the outside... don't like Hawk or Jones.

But every team has positions that are in flux, or not as strong as everyone would like... so it comes down to coaching.

Would love to see Dom let go. Won't happen though, we're stuck with him I'm afraid.

[Iron Mike]

It's taken several years, but I agree with you. I think we have the personnel that can do it. I just wonder about Campen and Trgovac.