FOR THOSE WHO HATE CAPERS.....

[Bretsky]

I'd like an analysis that breaks down the talent on this defense and argues he has enough to work with.

Call me still on the fence. I bless the idea of letting DOM go and finding another DC. It just might be time to make a change for change sade

But I keep wrestling with the idea...simply put...is it really DOM or has the Packers organization failed DOM in not giving him the cards to play with.

Has the Blackjack dealer deals DOM a 6 and then turned over an ace ? Are the odds stacked against him week in and week out ????

McGinn has sources through the NFL and he always notes DOM is very well thoghts of in the NFL Circle.


With some breakdown of what he has to work with, has GB failed Dom Capers or has Dom failed us ????

[bobblehead]

I think the D is somewhat weak up the middle. I have said so many times. I also think they specialize too much. As Pb said in another post, we can't stop the run in nickel and we can't stop the pass in base. Its time to work some of these guys to death in both, not specialize so much, and be effective across the board (and not worry about being dominant at anything).

[Bretsky]

agree completely with you bobblehead. My gut tells me when we take a step back and look at all of the players individually......we just don't have the talent to succeed.
I just want to be average again there.

[mraynrand]

Capers' schemes put Francois, Jolly, Matthews, Perry, Neal, Pickett, Jones, Burnett, Hayward, and everyone else who was injured in a position to be injured and therefore ruin the defense. Same goes for Stubby and Slocum. And Thompson for drafting an injury prone team. Time to start over. Bring in Dwight Clark and Carmen Policy.

[bobblehead]

I don't completely buy the argument of guys who are playing hurt. The entire NFL plays hurt. I think Capers biggest problem is that his guys don't play with heart. That is also on MM. MM and Dom are even keeled guys. That bodes well much of the time, but I think you must have fire on D. We need more guys like Daniels and Jolly who are animated and psychotic.

Hawk is the epitome of this. Very assignment sure, never losing his cool. I think one good destructive safety would do wonders for us...unfortunately John Lynch is old and retired. BRING BACK BIGBY!!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Packers defense played better in 2009 and 2010 than the last few years with comparable talent. That's continued a disturbing trend in Capers' career. He turns defenses around and starts off well in places but his defenses trend to regress after the first two years.

[Tony Oday]

Capers sucks, proof is his hair even doesn't listen to him.

[pbmax]

There are a lot of mismatched parts on this Defense.

Raji has been asked to stay home and keep the LBs clean. Worked for three weeks but then Pickett got hurt. Raji in stay at home and read mode is not effective at shedding blocks (when you are as fast as Raji off the snap, you may never have needed to bump bellies and hand fight in tight quarters).

Remember all of Adrian Peterson's jogs along the LOS, finding no hole only to cut back and get around the end? Same this happens this year despite three OLBs who can set an edge (Matthews, Perry and Neal). What is missing? A ILB who can force that edge by recovering OR a safety to close off the wide outside. A healthy Perry or experienced Neal would not be a bad thing here either. Bigger corners might help.

If my theory about Burnett and Hawk is correct (they are good and will improve no more) then the Packers need better complements than Doc Jennings, Brad Jones and Jamari Lattimore.

Pass rush; I have not seen pressure stats in a while, but its feast or famine with pressure. Seems like its sack or bust with the Packers pass rush. This has been a problem with 2007 with Matthews, Jenkins, Raji and Woodson providing only temporary relief. There is still not a pass rush standout on this team.

The talent on the D is not comparable to 2009-10 (Woodson, Collins) and I bet virtually every D coordinator hired improves his D for two years (unless you are Monte Kiffin and asked to install a D you don't have the played for) before people figure it out on film. After that you need players. What players the Packers have are mismatched and they have several holes. The open question is whether these holes should have been filled by existing talent.

Right now, I think Whitt is the only one with a clear cut case for staying employed among position coaches. Moss has not developed much next to Hawk. Trgo has not gotten through to Raji and still has no natural 3-4 Des (Jones isn't ready). Green has Matthews but both Perry and Neal are works in progress. The best rep among assistant coaches was Darren Perry, but he hasn't found a second safety since Burnett.

[woodbuck27]

Capers' schemes put Francois, Jolly, Matthews, Perry, Neal, Pickett, Jones, Burnett, Hayward, and everyone else who was injured in a position to be injured and therefore ruin the defense. Same goes for Stubby and Slocum. And Thompson for drafting an injury prone team. Time to start over. Bring in Dwight Clark and Carmen Policy.

Heck... let's go for the juggler. There goes Ted Thompson ! See Yaa Teddy !!

[Bretsky]

There are a lot of mismatched parts on this Defense.

Raji has been asked to stay home and keep the LBs clean. Worked for three weeks but then Pickett got hurt. Raji in stay at home and read mode is not effective at shedding blocks (when you are as fast as Raji off the snap, you may never have needed to bump bellies and hand fight in tight quarters).

Remember all of Adrian Peterson's jogs along the LOS, finding no hole only to cut back and get around the end? Same this happens this year despite three OLBs who can set an edge (Matthews, Perry and Neal). What is missing? A ILB who can force that edge by recovering OR a safety to close off the wide outside. A healthy Perry or experienced Neal would not be a bad thing here either. Bigger corners might help.

If my theory about Burnett and Hawk is correct (they are good and will improve no more) then the Packers need better complements than Doc Jennings, Brad Jones and Jamari Lattimore.

Pass rush; I have not seen pressure stats in a while, but its feast or famine with pressure. Seems like its sack or bust with the Packers pass rush. This has been a problem with 2007 with Matthews, Jenkins, Raji and Woodson providing only temporary relief. There is still not a pass rush standout on this team.

The talent on the D is not comparable to 2009-10 (Woodson, Collins) and I bet virtually every D coordinator hired improves his D for two years (unless you are Monte Kiffin and asked to install a D you don't have the played for) before people figure it out on film. After that you need players. What players the Packers have are mismatched and they have several holes. The open question is whether these holes should have been filled by existing talent.

Right now, I think Whitt is the only one with a clear cut case for staying employed among position coaches. Moss has not developed much next to Hawk. Trgo has not gotten through to Raji and still has no natural 3-4 Des (Jones isn't ready). Green has Matthews but both Perry and Neal are works in progress. The best rep among assistant coaches was Darren Perry, but he hasn't found a second safety since Burnett.

All good points; we need to draft better on the defensive side of the ball.

Regarding the second safety...it's hard for me to blame Perry. We can't change junk into gold. TT needs to be held accountable for finding the second safety IMO. Hyde might be the shit that sticks there. Otherwise he isn't on our roster.

[Pugger]

I don't completely buy the argument of guys who are playing hurt. The entire NFL plays hurt. I think Capers biggest problem is that his guys don't play with heart. That is also on MM. MM and Dom are even keeled guys. That bodes well much of the time, but I think you must have fire on D. We need more guys like Daniels and Jolly who are animated and psychotic.

Hawk is the epitome of this. Very assignment sure, never losing his cool. I think one good destructive safety would do wonders for us...unfortunately John Lynch is old and retired. BRING BACK BIGBY!!!

I don't know if I'd say that. The guys - save the Turkey day game - have hung in there while teammates were dropping like flies and by some miracle are now in a position to get into the playoffs. I'd like to know how many other teams without their HOF QB and 16 guys on IR would still be scratching and clawing and trying to win games with one hand tied behind their backs. I truly wonder if we have the talent right now - especially up the middle and at safety - or is our depth all that hot when we lost all these guys?

[Bretsky]

I don't know if I'd say that. The guys - save the Turkey day game - have hung in there while teammates were dropping like flies and by some miracle are now in a position to get into the playoffs. I'd like to know how many other teams without their HOF QB and 16 guys on IR would still be scratching and clawing and trying to win games with one hand tied behind their backs. I truly wonder if we have the talent right now - especially up the middle and at safety - or is our depth all that hot when we lost all these guys?

When everybody is healthy IMO our offensive cup is pretty dang full

I think it's a lot more empty on defense and we have some glaring holes that needed to be addressed....like...yesterday

[pbmax]

Wilde's article summing up Matt Flynn's year makes a good point about the Thanksgiving Day game. He went in there without a full practice. Doesn't explain the defensive meltdown in the 2nd half, but it does explain why the offense was NO help.

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=12411&is_corp=1

[red]

capers is following the exact same pattern that has followed him his whole career

he gets a new job and within a couiple years turns that defense into one of the best in football, then it declines until it is near the bottom and he gets fired

he then moves on to a new team and the process starts all over again

someone on this site posted his ups and downs a few years back that showed this progression very clearly

i don't know why it happens, but it does, and i don't think he's ever brought a team back up after he's taken it to a valley

its time for him to go, his history shows that its time for him to move on to a new team and for us to find a new DC

i also think we have a good amount of talent on d, but like the offensive line, i don't think the sum of all the parts adds up quite right.

say you grade every guy on a 1-5 scale. you go through our starters on D and you might come up with a number around 35 or 40 or so. yet the defense as a whole plays at about a 25 or 30 at best

i do think we need more talent on D at safety and MLB (maybe just one guy at each) but the guys aren't playing as a unit or something. too many guys look confused, too many errors

something needs to change imo

[th87]

I wouldn't know how many more records our defense would need to give up (Kaepernick, Warner, the 2011 defense, etc.) before it would be justified to let Capers go.

It's one thing to be average, or even below average. Quite another to give up *records* at the most inopportune times.