Wholesale Changes

[call_me_ishmael]

This team will not be a super bowl team again until they can suffocate the run and get after the QB. They are just so awful in the front 7 despite a lot of high picks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The only major piece I'd like to see us add on offense is a #1 TE. On defense I'd like to see us get a difference maker at DL, LB, and S. It might be tough, but that should be the goal. We're losing a lot at DL, so it will need to be rebuilt. Safety is a huge need. I think Richardson has some potential, but not somebody to count on. Jennings should be gone. This is very doable. We need good health as much as anything. And I wouldn't mind if Capers retired.

[bobblehead]

You are overstating the value of those players. Matthews is a stud but the rest are very unproven over time. Hayward is the most overrated guy on the Packers imo. I hope I'm wrong.

Jolly and Shields are solid. The rest are meh.

My god, how were we even in this game til the end? We should have lost 55-0. We have no talent, they have tons, and we were playing with 5 backups on defense.

[woodbuck27]

First of all... let's get it out of the way. The Niners are a uniquely talented team. They have been bad for so long and have the most #1 picks on their roster of any team in the league. They needed a culture change that Baalke and Harbaugh brought. They will soon run into money issues so it is what it is.

The Packers need to make some significant changes to continue being competitive and being in a position to compete for the super bowl.

1. Figure out why we are always near the top of the league in injuries. Somebody, probably PB, posted a chart a few weeks back detailing injuries over the past several seasons. The Packers were at or near the top. This has to stop. Whether it is a matter of Ted picking athletes with injury history, or what, I don't know, but something needs to change here.

2. The dreaded 2-4 defense needs to go away. I'm damn sick of being in this micro-nickel all of the time. NFL teams are keeping three WRs out most plays now. It's time to adjust and be able to control the line of scrimmage. I would like to see the Packers use 3 down linemen every play. Period.

3. Stronger up the middle. The Packers inside linebackers suck. The Packers safeties suck. The rest of the D is serviceable. They need sweeping, radical changes here.

4. Significant Improvement in scouting. It's no surprise to see a draft-and-develop organization begin to fall off when their past 2-3 drafts have yielded little to no depth or talent. It isn't a shock to me that these drafts have taken a step down in quality after the departure of Reggie McKenzie, John Dorsey and John Schneider. It is unreasonable to expect a back-up to play as well as a pro-bowler, so it isn't too surprising that Alonzo Highsmith and Elliot Wolf aren't superstars yet. These guys need to be better, and the Packers need to draft better, or they need to make some changes in how they build their team. They will not be successful if they do not acquire more quality players.

That's all for right now.

Excellent and all are solid points for focus.

Great job.

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

Agree on 1 and 4. 3 I disagree vehemently. Did we EVER get a consistent pass rush from our front D line? NO. We had to either blitz or Matthews had to make a play (when he was healthy).

We need help at D-Line, Safety, ILB and O-Line. In Free Agency, Jones, Raji and Finley can go bye-bye. Finley, IMO is Nick Collins, part 2, plus he wants too much money. We need to find a way to get some better safety play. Burnett was pathetic this year. Brad Jones at ILB isn't the answer. Though AJ Hawk had one of his better seasons, he isn't a steller ILB.

** a) 3 I disagree vehemently.

** b) We need help at D-Line, Safety, ILB

Don't a) and b) support one another digitaldean?

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

Bullshit. Teams have to suck ass for a few years to get a superstar QB and a superstar defender. We have both already. Why blow it up and suck so you can get a guy as good as Rodgers or Matthews when you already have them?

The issue isn't the top-of-the-line talent. It's the average talent of the team as a whole. They went from a super deep team in 2010 to one with practically no depth at all. Too many rookie FAs.

Nailed it.

[woodbuck27]

My god, how were we even in this game til the end? We should have lost 55-0. We have no talent, they have tons, and we were playing with 5 backups on defense.

Yes the reason we lost is simple.

The team that went out there today and especially on offense wasn't hungry enough to get it done.

I need to study the game tomorrow or sometime when I get the stomach for that. I'm so washed out after that game right now. I need some new perspective and strength.

Right after that game there was one poster in the thread that I wanted to drift right down on he had me so pissed off. That's not cool.

Where did that creep land in from?

HELL !?

Read the thread and you'll see the poster I refer to.

GO PACK GO !

[run pMc]

** a) 3 I disagree vehemently.

** b) We need help at D-Line, Safety, ILB

Don't a) and b) support one another digitaldean?

GO PACK GO !

Original quote was:

3. Stronger up the middle. The Packers inside linebackers suck. The Packers safeties suck. The rest of the D is serviceable. They need sweeping, radical changes here.

I think DD was disagreeing with the notion that the rest of the D is serviceable.

Bottom line: the defense needs to play better. The Safeties were bad IMO, the run D regressed as injuries piled up and the pass rush was inconsistent at best. I'd like to see a playmaker at ILB and a solid S at minimum, but they will need help on the DL too. Jolly, Pickett and Raji could all be gone.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

The biggest issue of the off season should be why is the whole team always hurt? Is it just bad luck? We beat San fran yesterday if we were as healthy as they have been. After that we need to figure out which players to keep. Capers and MM aren't going anywhere no matter how much I or anyone else might want them to go. So I'm not going to waste my time even discussing something that is not going to happen. Our only hope to get back to the superbowl is to upgrade the personal, keep our core players, and stay healthy for a complete season.

Raji:
With all the talk about how Raji has regressed, and I agree he somewhat regressed, he would still be a big loss. The problem with keeping him is he wants to get paid around 10 million a year (not going to happen). Pickett looks to have slowed down and Jolly might never paly again so losing Raji would be big. Hoping that if we keep Raji in year two Datone Jones, Boyd, and Worthy develop (basically year two for Worthy). Next order of business imo should be to move Perry to DE. Mike Neal looks surprisingly natural standing up and just seems to be a much better fit then Perry at OLB. Perry should have his hand on the ground plain and simple. His bull rush from the middle of the line would make it a lot easier of Clay and Neal to get to the QB. This is a big change I would love to see this offseason.

Flynn:
I think we all saw this year that having a good back up QB is important. This is just a prefect fit for both sides and it allows you to slowly develop ST.

Neal:
Without a doubt we should bring him back. In year two at OLB I believe he can get 6-8 sacks. At the very least he would be good rotational guy with Clay and maybe someone they draft.

Finley:
Bring him back only if its a good deal for the team. The guy is getting paid way to much for his production, availability, and level of consistency. Not only that, but the guy always runs his mouth. But given his age and ability to stretch the field when healthy I would bring him back if he signs something around 3 years/15mil.

James Jones:
Solid player even though he dropped a bomb yesterday. Given his age and speed limitations I would offer him nothing more than the last time we signed him 3years/10mil

Kuhn:
Bring him back. Good player and a leader on the team.

Shields:
One of the best players on defense imo. Need to re-sign. If he continues to improve his tackling he would be a complete player.

Quarless:
Depends on how much he wants and what happens to Finley. If we keep Finely and he wants a decent pay raise they should let him walk. Decent player though.

Newhouse:
Gone

EDS:
If cheap then yes. Otherwise role with the young guys. The oline might be the most interesting group on the team next year. If Sherrod and Bulaga win starting jobs, then what happens to Barclay and Bahk? Do they move to guard? Does Lang move to center? Is Tretter our next center? A lot of unknowns. Sherrod's play is the biggest wild card on the oline next year.

Francois:
Good Sp. teamer so yeah bring him back.

Starks:
Great change of pace back with Lacey. Would love him back.

Wilson:
Gone

Lattimore:
Decent depth.

Jennings:
GOOONE

Wallace:
Gone

Bell:
Gone

[denverYooper]

The only major piece I'd like to see us add on offense is a #1 TE. On defense I'd like to see us get a difference maker at DL, LB, and S. It might be tough, but that should be the goal. We're losing a lot at DL, so it will need to be rebuilt. Safety is a huge need. I think Richardson has some potential, but not somebody to count on. Jennings should be gone. This is very doable. We need good health as much as anything. And I wouldn't mind if Capers retired.

This seems sensible. I do think Jones will be a nice player on the DL next year, though. That group is going to be an interesting situation in the offseason/TC/next season. Jones, Daniels, Worthy, and Boyd could be a pretty active DL group. They probably need to get Pick or Raji done for a year or two until Boyd fills out, but I think they might be ok there.

I'm heavily in the camp that they *need* a very good ILB, S, or both. At least one. Who can stay healthy.

As far as Capers goes, his contract is up this year, isn't it? Information on coaches' contracts is a lot tighter, but that seems to be the speculation.

[SkinBasket]

I love the "figure out why guys are getting injured" goal. Answer: They play football. I can see targeting a specific issue, like the hamstring one, and bringing in specialists to change our training regimen accordingly. But stopping injuries? Maybe drinking unicorn blood? If Ted really cared about this team, he would send off to Hogwarts for one.

Raji can go fuck hisself. He's brought very little that another marginally talented fat man can't bring for the past couple seasons. Neal, Starks and Shields should be priority. Finley looks like a perfect candidate for a one year deal to prove he won't die on the field. Q, Flynn, Jones (even after dropping 100 yards worth of passing yards yesterday - he's got a great smile), and Lattimore are worth negotiating with. The rest can stay or go.

[pbmax]

You are overstating the value of those players. Matthews is a stud but the rest are very unproven over time. Hayward is the most overrated guy on the Packers imo. I hope I'm wrong.

Jolly and Shields are solid. The rest are meh.

Shields is their best corner, he would have gotten Crabtree. Crab doesn't average 17 yards per catch on Shields without another INT.

But the wholesale change needed is pass rush. Yes an ILB or Safety are called for. But without a pass rush, its not going to matter. Without drafting in the top 15 or signing a free agent, the Packers are not going to have a Justin Smith on the field soon. But they need to discover an Aldon Smith somewhere, keep Daniels and keep Matthews healthy.

Without a pass rush the Packer nearly took away four balls from Kapernick. Think what a pass rush could add to that.

[red]

I love the "figure out why guys are getting injured" goal. Answer: They play football. I can see targeting a specific issue, like the hamstring one, and bringing in specialists to change our training regimen accordingly. But stopping injuries? Maybe drinking unicorn blood? If Ted really cared about this team, he would send off to Hogwarts for one.

Raji can go fuck hisself. He's brought very little that another marginally talented fat man can't bring for the past couple seasons. Neal, Starks and Shields should be priority. Finley looks like a perfect candidate for a one year deal to prove he won't die on the field. Q, Flynn, Jones (even after dropping 100 yards worth of passing yards yesterday - he's got a great smile), and Lattimore are worth negotiating with. The rest can stay or go.

there has to be something going on. it can't just be dumb luck that we're the most injury plagued team every single season

[Rutnstrut]

there has to be something going on. it can't just be dumb luck that we're the most injury plagued team every single season

Yup, something is wrong there, it can't be that they are juicing, Clay get's hurt when the wind blows.

[mraynrand]

there has to be something going on. it can't just be dumb luck that we're the most injury plagued team every single season

UNBALANCED!!