how "green" were the members on special teams this year?

[red]

there's been a lot of talk about how the turnover at the bottom of the roster (due to all the injuries), was the reason why our special teams coverage units were so poor this year. ignoring the fact that they are horrid every year

does someone have a list of the guys that were on the coverage units, so we can see who was where and when?

when i started to think about it last night i got to thinking that maybe they weren't as "green" as some people think they were

bush, he's been in the unit for a few years now, not green
mulumba i think is a member, he would have been doing it all season
francois has been in the unit i think for the last couple of years
ryan taylor was on that unit all year
banjo i believe was part of the unit all year

is kuhn a member of coverage, or just kick returns? he's been there forever

does anyone have the names of the rest, or an idea?

keep in mind we're only looking for about 9 guys. crosby/mashtay and goode take up 2 of the 11 spots each time

i'm starting to think that the special teams units weren't just made up of the guys we signed each week off the practice squad, they were guys mostly on the practice squad the whole time and the "injury" excuse is just a way to cover slocums ass for yet another year

anybody got names they remember being in there. or video?

patler?

[woodbuck27]

I'll get on that right now red.

[woodbuck27]

red to check this out:

A) Go to Packers .Cm 2-13 schedule:

http://www.packers.com/gameday/schedule.html

B) Click on Game Day on the RHS for any 2013 game.

ie Thanksgiving day and Packers @ Lions and your here:

http://www.packers.com/gameday/game/2013/regular13

C) Now Click on Gamebook (PDF) located just below the Box Score and RHS.

Your now here:

http://www.packers.com/assets/docs/gamebooks/2013/131128-gamebook-lions.pdf

Scroll down to get ie if you find it useful ...the players inactive list...and scroll further down to get the Green Bay Packers ...Defensive Stats...and ST Stat's.

You'll see who on ST's made tackles and Assisted tackles >>> more. This isn't exactly telling you who exactly worked where ie on punt and/or KO coverage but all the same it's useful in terms of RESULTS and ST's.

I discovered that from the Week 9 game when the Packers lost Aaron Rodgers and going forward ...The main performers on ST's ie getting results were:

Jarrett Bush Tackles in 6 games.

MD Jennings and Davon house...Tackles in 4 games.

Micah Hyde tackles in 3 games.

Chris Banjo; Mike Neal; Morgan Burnett; Andy Mulumba; Ryan Taylor; Sean Richardson; V. Alyewe; and Brett Goode...all active on ST's and tackles in 2 games.

Other's that made a tackle on ST's Jamari Lattimore; Jarrett Boykin; J. Stoneburner; Nate Palmer and John Kuhn all had at least one game on ST's with a tackle.


GO PACKERS !

[red]

so, kinda like i though

the special teams wasn't all that effected by guys having to step up into starting roles in other department

looks like it was about the same group of guys that were playing special teams all season

so can we now say that the claim of injuries effecting special teams is a MYTH?

we had starters playing ST, we didn't have a bunch of junk out there, although some of those starters are junk (jennings, burnett)

[woodbuck27]

so, kinda like i though

the special teams wasn't all that effected by guys having to step up into starting roles in other department

looks like it was about the same group of guys that were playing special teams all season

so can we now say that the claim of injuries effecting special teams is a MYTH?

we had starters playing ST, we didn't have a bunch of junk out there, although some of those starters are junk (jennings, burnett)

It doesn't matter.

Whatever the other side says to defend TT and MM is obviously good enough. Mediocrity is acceptable as long as the Green Bay Packers win the NFCN.

Wanting more is simply looked upon as an unlikely result. All that matters is a solid support for the Green Bay Packers and an almost "military style belief and dedication" to the Packer GM and HC.

Losing over and over again to the San Fran 49ers will turn around one day.

I mean I do get it. I want to get what I desire sooner than the timetable that the Packers GM and HC don't seem to have. All they ever need to do is place that Super Bowl ring on their finger and their convinced their winners.

The 'only way' this is corrected is if all Packer fans end up collectively suffering and even then it will be..just another season. Just one more as we're only four season's now focused on getting this right. We're so close with the BEST player in the NFL ...it'll happen.

The classic horse shoe punch... How many NFL Teams have won or repeated in a Super Bowl in the last four (4) seasons !?

That Super Bowl win is like ....a 5-8 season lease on anything approaching absolute near Detroit Lion (slash) Cleveland Brown futility and based in any excuse (s) that jstify TT's and MM's job.

See Detroit >>>see Cleveland. See >>>so many other NFL franchises. Well see 28 other NFL franchises/organizations.

I get it.

I'm incredibly happy to be a Green Bay Packer fan. I've had to be patient through one stretch of 29 years between the Green Bay Packers winning Super Bowls...or Super Bowls II and XXXI.

I still want to see the Packers win another Super Bowl in two-three years. I'm just driven that way.

GO PACK GO !

[mraynrand]

so, kinda like i thought...the special teams wasn't all that effected by guys having to step up into starting roles in other department

I have no idea how you draw this conclusion from the guys Woody listed:

Andy Mulumba
Ryan Taylor
Sean Richardson
V. Alyewe
Brett Goode
Jamari Lattimore
Jarrett Boykin
J. Stoneburner
Nate Palmer
J. Kuhn

only Kuhn is a vet (Goode is too, but he's the snapper). Alyewe and Stoneburner were in-season additions due to LB injuries (recall that Francois was lost for the season; Perry and Neal were mostly unavailable). Richardson was injured and only came in late, but he too has little experience. All those guys are rookie FA first or second year scrap heap guys. In truth the conclusion is that the ST were populated by very young, very inexperience players, and certainly a good number were mostly unfamiliar with the Packers schemes and were learning on the fly. Bush as a gunner was pressed into service in the defensive backfield due to failures by McMillian and House; House was KO'd from the defense due to poor tackling, but played ST because there was no one else available. STs depend on LBs and DBs to tackle and gun, and the packers were a sorry bunch in both departments, mostly due to injury at LB and suckitude from the safeties. Slocum was working with a lot of raw crap.

[red]

most of our injuries this year were not special teamers, and the guys that were promoted to starting roles because of injuries, continued to play on special teams

the coverage units we had at the end of the year looked pretty damn close to the team that played in the middle of the year and the guys that started the year off.

and besides, like bretsky has said a few times before, your special teams is suppose to be made up of you fringe players, like stoneburner, its the job of the special teams coach to get those guys ready to play on a weekly basis.

and really, how fucking tough is it to tell a guy to stay in his fucking lane and tackle. a post-it note would do a better job then slocum

your special teams coverage unit is not made up of guys like a-rod, mathews, cobb, any of the jones, sherrod, baluga, or finleythose guys and hayward make up the bulk of our injuries this year. none of those guys (except for maybe hayward) have anything at all to do with the coverage units

[mraynrand]

most of our injuries this year were not special teamers, and the guys that were promoted to starting roles because of injuries, continued to play on special teams. the coverage units we had at the end of the year looked pretty damn close to the team that played in the middle of the year and the guys that started the year off.

I don't think this is true, but I'd have to go back and actually tabulate this. For sure, some of the guys playing STs at the end of the year weren't on the squad at the beginning

your special teams is suppose to be made up of you fringe players, like stoneburner, its the job of the special teams coach to get those guys ready to play on a weekly basis.

and really, how fucking tough is it to tell a guy to stay in his fucking lane and tackle. a post-it note would do a better job then slocum

You'd think it wouldn't be that tough, but what's your wonderlic score?

your special teams coverage unit is not made up of guys like a-rod, mathews, cobb, any of the jones, sherrod, baluga, or finleythose guys and hayward make up the bulk of our injuries this year. none of those guys (except for maybe hayward) have anything at all to do with the coverage units

Like I said, coverage units are largely LBs, dbs, running backs and wide receivers. Losses or deficiencies in those areas reflect on the special teams, and the Packers suffered with LBs and dbs. It's part of the equation that Stubby and TT are looking at when evaluating Slocum. Maybe they toss him anyway, because they agree that performance should be better, even with fringe guys in there.

[mraynrand]

anyway, you started a thread asking how green these guys were, and I think they were pretty young.

[red]

guess i should have asked if our guys this year are greener then usual? or greener then other teams ST guys

[mraynrand]

guess i should have asked if our guys this year are greener then usual? or greener then other teams ST guys

Hopefully Patler is working on this right now. I'm just too damn lazy and I actually have to do 15 minutes of real, actual work today.

[Bossman641]

You ask...I provide. I have no idea how these numbers compare to other teams. I do recall reading that a few guys, like Stoneburner, either hadn't played ST in college or hadn't played them in a number of years.


Davon House 338 (66.1 percent)
Ryan Taylor 335 (65.6 percent)
Jarrett Bush 311 (60.9 percent)
Jamari Lattimore 292 (57.1 percent)
Chris Banjo 273 (53.4 percent)
Micah Hyde 254 (49.7 percent)
John Kuhn 229 (44.8 percent)
Andy Mulumba 217 (42.5 percent)
M.D. Jennings 201 (39.3 percent)
Tim Masthay 192 (37.6 percent)
Jerron McMillian 179 (35.0 percent)
Brandon Bostick 163 (31.9 percent)
Mike Daniels 158 (30.9 percent)
Brett Goode 157 (30.7 percent)
Jake Stoneburner 149 (29.2 percent)
Mason Crosby 145 (28.4 percent)
Sean Richardson 133 (26.0 percent)
Datone Jones 111 (21.7 percent)
Morgan Burnett 97 (19.0 percent)
Jarrett Boykin 94 (18.4 percent)
Victor Aiyewa 90 (17.6 percent)
Sam Barrington 89 (17.4 percent)
Robert Francois 87 (17.0 percent)
Nate Palmer 85 (16.6 percent)
Josh Sitton 84 (16.4 percent)
T.J. Lang 83 (16.2 percent)
David Bakhtiari 83 (16.2 percent)
Mike Neal 83 (16.2 percent)
Marshall Newhouse 80 (15.7 percent)
Andrew Quarless 80 (15.7 percent)
Don Barclay 76 (14.4 percent)
Johnathan Franklin 71 (13.9 percent)
Johnny Jolly 63 (12.3 percent)
Kahlil Bell 59 (11.5 percent)

[Bretsky]

When is the last time you've felt positive about our special teams coach ?

It's been a long dam time for me and to be honest the last sprecial teams coach I remembered who had some qualifications was a dude named something like John Bonemengo....he experienced some ST success but left I think when we had a coaching change after a year. The one before that I thought highly of was Nolan Cronwell.

Anytime we kickoff in the key situation are you just praying we somehow keep them inside of the 30 if Crosby does not put it through the end zone ?
How many games do we have to witness the failure of our coverage units before we call a spade a spade ?
Our special teams performanance is unacceptable and somebody has to be accountable.

You can blame TT for doing a poor job of assembling the bottom half of the roster, or you can argue it's coaching. Every team deal with injuries and apologists can use that as a reason why our OL, DL,DB,ST, and Secondardy was sub part. But ST is an annual letdown in Green Bay.

What is Seattle doing that is so frickin different than Green Bay.....better coaching....or are they just drafting better players.....which may be the captain obvious response in looking at how they retooled that defense and their defense is so much better than Green Bay's.

Their special teams is phenominal. Our special teams are unacceptable.

[red]

When is the last time you've felt positive about our special teams coach ?

It's been a long dam time for me and to be honest the last sprecial teams coach I remembered who had some qualifications was a dude named something like John Bonemengo....he experienced some ST success but left I think when we had a coaching change after a year. The one before that I thought highly of was Nolan Cronwell.

Anytime we kickoff in the key situation are you just praying we somehow keep them inside of the 30 if Crosby does not put it through the end zone ?
How many games do we have to witness the failure of our coverage units before we call a spade a spade ?
Our special teams performanance is unacceptable and somebody has to be accountable.

You can blame TT for doing a poor job of assembling the bottom half of the roster, or you can argue it's coaching. Every team deal with injuries and apologists can use that as a reason why our OL, DL,DB,ST, and Secondardy was sub part. But ST is an annual letdown in Green Bay.

What is Seattle doing that is so frickin different than Green Bay.....better coaching....or are they just drafting better players.....which may be the captain obvious response in looking at how they retooled that defense and their defense is so much better than Green Bay's.

Their special teams is phenominal. Our special teams are unacceptable.

well, its about fucking time my backup got here

i figured i was gonna get eaten alive by the cool aide crowd until you got here

i think me and you should pick a day and meet up in green bay and tailgate out in the parking lot of 1265 with giant "FIRE SLOCUM" banners

[Joemailman]

The thing I'm wondering is whether any of this matters much. Of the top 10 ST units in 2013, 6 failed to make the playoffs. The Packers were 19th this year according to Football Outsiders. The year they won the Super Bowl they were 26th. Yes B, Seattle's special teams were great this year. They were 5th. Well, in 2010 they were 2nd and finished 7-9. I think we know why Seattle is in the Super Bowl, and it's not ST. Their opponent in the Super Bowl had the 21st ranked unit. I think it's probably true you don't want to be one of the worst ST units, but I'm not sure having one of the top units is all that significant.

As for injuries, are we to conclude that it's just a coincidence that the Packers ST units ranked 8th in 2011, the one recent year when the Packers were relatively injury-free?