Some believe Capers is not the problem - GM Ted Thompson Needs to Step Up His game.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140115/PKR0101/140115042/Packers-Talkback-Some-believe-Capers-not-problem?odyssey=obinsite

Packers Talkback: Some believe Capers is not the problem

"...defensive coordinator Dom Capers didn't have enough talent to work with and the problems of the Packers defense stemmed from some poor recent drafts by general manager Ted Thompson." FROM LINK

Jan. 15, 2014

GO PACK GO !

[packrulz]

I'm reluctant to call them poor drafts, I think that is premature, but so many of them have been injured it makes me wonder if they're pushing them too hard or coddling them too much. I don't blame Capers at all.

[MadScientist]

The 2011 and 2012 drafts haven't panned out very well, but it is more than that. When they first went to the 3-4, TT put a lot into getting key players for the 3-4, a NT (Raji) and an OLB (Matthews). Since then, the players have been more of a best player that plays position X without too much regard for the fit in the system. Between that and injuries, Capers doesn't seem to trust his players. It has gone from a 'dare the offense to find the hole in time' attitude to a 'try to minimize the holes and make the offense work for it' attitude.

Even with problems at other positions, if you swapped our safeties for Seattle's, I bet people here would be asking if Capers is going to get a HC spot elsewhere.

[red]

i don't know who's fault it is anymore because things have been spun so many different ways

all i know is our defense absolutely sucked at the end of last season, and we're pissing away prime super bowl winning chances (a-rod years) by having a shitting D holding back out team

for me, you either need to bring in guys that can stay healthy and our D-cord can actually use

or you bring in a d-cord that can use the players our GM drafts

we can't keep doing what we've been doing. that's not working for shit

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I'm reluctant to call them poor drafts, I think that is premature, but so many of them have been injured it makes me wonder if they're pushing them too hard or coddling them too much. I don't blame Capers at all.

I'm not reluctant, they were bad drafts for the most part. 2010 wasn't so hot either. Capers is not fully responsible, but I'm not his biggest fan either.

[3irty1]

The 2010 draft was pretty fantastic. Every single one of those players has started games for us and all of them are good enough to win with as starters. All of them finished or will finish their rookie contracts for us. That's pretty awesome.

2011 seems pretty average since it produced Cobb and House but also produced Sherrod was a significant setback even if he does make something of himself. 2012 could yet produce a few pro bowlers.

[Joemailman]

The 2010 draft was pretty fantastic. Every single one of those players has started games for us and all of them are good enough to win with as starters. All of them finished or will finish their rookie contracts for us. That's pretty awesome.

2011 seems pretty average since it produced Cobb and House but also produced Sherrod was a significant setback even if he does make something of himself. 2012 could yet produce a few pro bowlers.

2011 looks pretty bad unless House and Sherrod become solid starters. 2012 still could be pretty good if Perry, Worthy and Hayward can get and stay healthy. The early returns on 2013 look pretty good. A starting LT, Pro Bowl running back and solid secondary guy so far. Datone Jones and Tretter could make this one of TT's better drafts.

[red]

2011 looks pretty bad unless House and Sherrod become solid starters. 2012 still could be pretty good if Perry, Worthy and Hayward can get and stay healthy. The early returns on 2013 look pretty good. A starting LT, Pro Bowl running back and solid secondary guy so far. Datone Jones and Tretter could make this one of TT's better drafts.

this brings up a good point, but off topic for this thread, but who the fuck cares

when bulaga gets healthy, does he remain at LT (where he was suppose to play this year but we never got to see him play), or does he move back to RT and you leave bak at LT(where he wasn't great, but not bad as a 4th round rookie)?

[Joemailman]

this brings up a good point, but off topic for this thread, but who the fuck cares

when bulaga gets healthy, does he remain at LT (where he was suppose to play this year but we never got to see him play), or does he move back to RT and you leave bak at LT(where he wasn't great, but not bad as a 4th round rookie)?

Given his injury history, I wouldn't put him at LT. I'd put him at RT and let Bakh and Sherrod battle it out at LT. (Sherrod's injury doesn't make him injury prone. What happened to him would have knocked out anybody.) If Bulaga gets hurt at RT again, you have an experienced guy in Barclay to take his place. If Sherrod plays well enough to beat out Bakh, then you would have to figure out what to do with him. But that would be a nice problem to have.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

The 2010 draft was pretty fantastic. Every single one of those players has started games for us and all of them are good enough to win with as starters. All of them finished or will finish their rookie contracts for us. That's pretty awesome.

2011 seems pretty average since it produced Cobb and House but also produced Sherrod was a significant setback even if he does make something of himself. 2012 could yet produce a few pro bowlers.

2010 would have been solid if I couldn't name at least four players who missed the better part of two years worth of games. Easy to finish your rookie contract if the coaches are always waiting for "next year." TT had solid drafts in 05, 06, 08, and 09. If Datone Jones turns out, 2013 looks like its solid as well. 2007 and 2010 were okay/average, 2011 was bad, and 2012 is looking bad. So from 2010 to 2012 we have had average to below average drafts. First five drafts have been a lot better than the last four. Not bashing TT, simply stating facts.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Given his injury history, I wouldn't put him at LT. I'd put him at RT and let Bakh and Sherrod battle it out at LT. (Sherrod's injury doesn't make him injury prone. What happened to him would have knocked out anybody.) If Bulaga gets hurt at RT again, you have an experienced guy in Barclay to take his place. If Sherrod plays well enough to beat out Bakh, then you would have to figure out what to do with him. But that would be a nice problem to have.

I'm excited to see what Tretter can do. First two years in college he was a TE and then he moved to tackle so he is still learning the position. He has good size and he's a very smart guy (scored a 33 on his wonderlic). I hope we throw him in the mix right away in camp.

Bakh/Lang/Tretter/Sitton/Bulaga has potential to be a very good oline.

[Carolina_Packer]

I said it in another thread, the safety net (no pun intended) is less when you don't bother with veteran free agency. You are not only drafting and developing, in some cases you are throwing them to the wolves, and we as fans just want the best possible product on the field and a greatly competitive team, and a front office and coaching staff that finds and fixes problems, and doesn't hide behind too much loyalty. I'm sure the young players are thrilled to be given opportunities so soon, but the real problem is that many of them are not ready for the responsibility, and I think most fans know that. This is the state of our team. If our picks and college free agents don't develop quickly and make a solid contribution, or they get hurt and can't do so, then it really hurts the overall progress of the team. The cap numbers will be healthy under Thompson, but does he really know when to step on the gas and sign a reasonable and much needed veteran free agent, vs. his typical slow and steady approach?

[3irty1]

2010 would have been solid if I couldn't name at least four players who missed the better part of two years worth of games. Easy to finish your rookie contract if the coaches are always waiting for "next year." TT had solid drafts in 05, 06, 08, and 09. If Datone Jones turns out, 2013 looks like its solid as well. 2007 and 2010 were okay/average, 2011 was bad, and 2012 is looking bad. So from 2010 to 2012 we have had average to below average drafts. First five drafts have been a lot better than the last four. Not bashing TT, simply stating facts.

I wouldn't say those are the facts. If I had to rank the drafts, extrapolating on the ones that are too new to truly evaluate I'd do it like so:

2005, 2009, 2013, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2006, 2011, 2007

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I wouldn't say those are the facts. If I had to rank the drafts, extrapolating on the ones that are too new to truly evaluate I'd do it like so:

2005, 2009, 2013, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2006, 2011, 2007

2005
Rodgers
Collins
Murphy
Poppinga

Hall of frame QB and should have been hall of frame FS. That makes this the best by far. Murphy I feel would have been a solid pick esp playing with Favre and Rodgers. Poppinga was a decent stop gap for a few years.


2006
Hawk
Colledge
Jennings
Splitz
Blackmon
Jolly

Jennings and Jolly were great picks. Jennings played a major role in us winning the superbowl and Jolly was a steal in the 6th. Splitz and Colledge were decent stop gaps and Colledge even started the year we won the superbowl. Hawk is Hawk. We wanted better at number 5 but it could have been worse. Blackmon was a good return guy/role player.

2007
Jones
Jackson
Hall
Bishop
Crosby

Harrell ruined this draft. Jones was a great pick in round 3. Jackson was a good 3rd down back. Hall was a good 6th round pick - played fb and sp teams. Bishop was a steal in round 6 and Crosby turned out to be our kicker of the future. Had Harrell turned out, this would have been a good draft...he made it average.

2008
Nelson
Finley
Sitton
Giacomini
Flynn
Swain

Nelson was a great pick. Finley was a steal in round 3 and Sitton was a even bigger steal in round 4. Giacomini actually starts for Settle (maybe we gave up on him to early?). Flynn is a good backup QB that we found in round 7. Swain actually played in the superbowl so I'll mention him. This is a very underrated draft by TT. He had some bad misses, but go to round 3 and 4 and he picked two of the best players in both rounds.



2009
Raji
Matthews
Lang
Wynn
Jones

Raji, Matthews, and Lang all turned out to be solid starters. Matthews and Raji have both made the probowl. Wynn was a decent top gap and Jones is starting some how.


2010
Bulaga
Neal
Burnett
Quarless
Starks
Wilson

This would be a solid draft, but the players draft here all miss to much time. Bulaga is good, but who knows...haven't seen him play in like 2 yrs. Neal finally stayed healthy last year and played pretty good. Burnett sucks. Quarless, Starks, and Wilson are good role players but not starting material.

2011
Cobb
House
Taylor

Cobb is obviously the best pick. House is not that bad and I would like to see him play a little more. Taylor is a good sp teams player. Sherrod doesn't make the list. Horrible draft overall.


2012
Perry
Worthy
Hayward
Daniels

Perry IMO would be decent if we moved him to DE. I hate him at OLB. Worthy looked okay as a rookie and missed all of last year. Hayward looked like a really good find as a rookie. Daniels looks like a steal. All four of these remaining players have to show up next year for this draft to be solid. Not looking good right now though

2013
Jones
Lacey
Bakhitari
Tretter
Franklin
Hyde
Boyd
Palmer
Dorsey
Barrington

Datone Jones can make this one of TT best drafts if he turns out. Lacey is already a probowler, Bakhitari played pretty well at LT and has room to grow, Tretter might also be a starter as well, Franklin showed he can play against cinny, Hyde played well in the slot this year, Boyd looks to be in the rotation next year. Palmer, Dorsey, and Barrington are to hard to judge at this point.

So this is how I would rank them:

2005, 2009, 2008, 2013, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2011

2013 can move up past 2009 if Bakhitari and Tretter become salwarts on the line, Datone Jones pans out, and Lacey continues to progress. Franklin and Hyde are also wild cards to be good picks. This draft has good potential. If Jones doesn't pan out, and Tretter doesn't play well, etc. this could fall some. 2007 and 2010 can flip-flop spots and I wouldn't argue - those two drafts are tossups to me.

[Pugger]

If Sherrod can overcome all the time he missed and plays well then 2011 will be a good draft. If Perry, Worthy and Hayward overcome their injuries then 2012 will be a great draft.

Notice the big issue in these drafts? I think these kids can be good players but injuries have derailed their careers so far so it is difficult to know how good or bad they really are.