Ray Rice

[wist43]

A lot of people agree with you about how self-righteousness is the worst but few have the stones to express it in a self-righteous rant. You sir are an artist.

I'm "self-righteous"?? That's rich... I'm saying leave these people alone, and let them work their problems out on their own. Predictably, you have it exactly 180 degrees backward - it is you, and all the other politically correct nazis that are self-righteous.

I'm saying have perspective, respect their privacy, stop piling on, get the plank out of your own eye!! You're the ones judging them - not just him, but her as well as the future of their family - that's just sick.

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

[pbmax]

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

First, how about you stop calling people you disagree with nazis?

Second, how on earth does punching out a women in a CASINO fall under the umbrella of something only you and a few other people know about?

[denverYooper]

]It seems to me that the NFL's real predicament does not lie in whether or not anybody saw the video[/B]. They knew exactly what happened, as it is in the complaint/summons issued by the DA back in February. It states clearly that Rice struck her with his hand, rendering her unconscious. Not quite as vicious a description as a sucker punch left hook, but still. The problem is the NFL decided that a knock out punch of a woman deserves a 2 game suspension - they thought 2 games is a very penal action in the high and mighty NFL. They totally underestimated the public opinion back lash when the video came out, and now have to squirm their way out of it.

Who knows what logic they used to come to that conclusion. Perhaps they monitored various boards and forums such as this one to gauge reaction and establish severity. Look at the initial posts in this thread, not much hue and cry going on. And besides, they are the high and mighty NFL that sponsors the "Pink Out" in the month October to support awareness of breast cancer, they love and respect women. Therein lies the real issue - how to justify the 2 games when they absolutely knew what happened. When it is all said and done, the video is inconsequential. The video now becomes the perfect distraction from the base issue of the NFL's original underestimation of the public perception of domestic violence. The video lets them begin the witch hunt. Someone is going to take a fall and I doubt it's Roger.

I think the NFL's real predicament is that it has made a lot of enemies outside of HQ with the way it has dealt with media, deigning to hand out very carefully controlled crumbs of information, and often doing so with an air of haughty superiority. Well, now there is tangible evidence out there indicating that a particular absurdity handed down by the NFL in the name of "discipline", on a case that many seemed to feel merited at least as much punishment as a marijuana conviction, confirms what many have felt about the league's dealings with respect to personal conduct -- that it has been arbitrary at best and favorable to certain teams and owners at worst.

Now that there is some real evidence that the NFL screwed up, everyone is gleefully demanding their pound of flesh for every past grievance they've had with NFL HQ.

[Fosco33]

I think Czabe's assessments are nearly spot on (go read his post).

Rice admitted to hitting his girlfriend. His fiance acknowledged and sat up there confirming it. The league and police reviewed and provided their punishments.... but since there's a video - you suspend him indefinitely? Rice didn't lie about any of it. It now appears the NFL has, though.

I'm sick of even watching ESPN because it's turning into the 'Days of our NFLives'.

If some schmuck at NFL HQ hid the tape from Rodger - I'd have to guess it's the case for 'plausible deniability' - to me, a sign of weak culture/leadership. And if every punishment is warranted based on video... where's the actual morality/fairness. A crime isn't worse if it's on tape. It MAY be worse for public opinion and therefore the NFL makes a sacrificial lamb.

Imagine if we saw Josh Brent's actual crash (or slamming drinks before hand) instead of still photos. 10 games for killing a teammate! 'Lifetime' for hitting someone.

Bunch of hypocrites.

[3irty1]

I'm "self-righteous"?? That's rich... I'm saying leave these people alone, and let them work their problems out on their own. Predictably, you have it exactly 180 degrees backward - it is you, and all the other politically correct nazis that are self-righteous.

I'm saying have perspective, respect their privacy, stop piling on, get the plank out of your own eye!! You're the ones judging them - not just him, but her as well as the future of their family - that's just sick.

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

You just claimed moral superiority to everyone else in America and went so far as to dehumanize them by calling them monsters and Nazis. You clearly don't have a clue what self-righteous means.

[wist43]

First, how about you stop calling people you disagree with nazis?

Second, how on earth does punching out a women in a CASINO fall under the umbrella of something only you and a few other people know about?

I find it amazing that anyone would just blithely accept living in a surveillance society - it's just mind numbing that Amerikans have come accept living in an Orwellian world, and not only see nothing wrong with it, they celebrate it. Truly amazing how government indoctrination can so easily capture the minds of people.

I'm not defending what Rice did... and the fact that it was very public, and the NFL is very high profile - warrants some sanction from his employer for the sake of PR; but what is being done is typical of the pack mentality that accompanies all things PC. No thinking required, no perspective, no concern for his wife or family... that's how you people think, or rather don't think.

Carry on with your "2 Minutes Hate"... you had best rage on with enthusiasm, lest the authorities identify you as lacking conviction - you could get sent for "reeducation" - now repeat, "2+2=5, 2+2=5, 2+2=5..."

[Striker]

I'm "self-righteous"?? That's rich... I'm saying leave these people alone, and let them work their problems out on their own. Predictably, you have it exactly 180 degrees backward - it is you, and all the other politically correct nazis that are self-righteous.

I'm saying have perspective, respect their privacy, stop piling on, get the plank out of your own eye!! You're the ones judging them - not just him, but her as well as the future of their family - that's just sick.

You ever done something you felt shame and regret about - but only you and another person, or couple of other people know about?? Let's "out" 3irty1, and publicly shame him!!! Perhaps 3irty1 should be suspended from his job?? food taken off his table?? His children marked with a scarlett letter??

Yes, "we" have made him a beggar now. I sure as hell feel bad for him and the $15 million guaranteed money he received from the money he made as a signing bonus in 2012, plus the $7 million he made as a bonus, the $3 million he made in base salary, and the $3 million he made under his rookie deal.

I'm kind of horrified that you think domestic violence falls under the purview of "political correctness".

The other thing is when you're a professional athlete with any sort of celebrity you probably should realize that anything you do, especially in public with any type of cameras present, really loses any sense of privacy.

[Striker]

I find it amazing that anyone would just blithely accept living in a surveillance society - it's just mind numbing that Amerikans have come accept living in an Orwellian world, and not only see nothing wrong with it, they celebrate it. Truly amazing how government indoctrination can so easily capture the minds of people.

I'm not defending what Rice did... and the fact that it was very public, and the NFL is very high profile - warrants some sanction from his employer for the sake of PR; but what is being done is typical of the pack mentality that accompanies all things PC. No thinking required, no perspective, no concern for his wife or family... that's how you people think, or rather don't think.

Carry on with your "2 Minutes Hate"... you had best rage on with enthusiasm, lest the authorities identify you as lacking conviction - you could get sent for "reeducation" - now repeat, "2+2=5, 2+2=5, 2+2=5..."

It's a casino. There is going to be surveillance everywhere.

BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING CASINO.

This is not at all the same thing as having cameras in their homes, or in their cars, etc.

You really are going off the reservation with this one. Holy cow.

[wist43]

You just claimed moral superiority to everyone else in America and went so far as to dehumanize them by calling them monsters and Nazis. You clearly don't have a clue what self-righteous means.

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

[wist43]

Yes, "we" have made him a beggar now. I sure as hell feel bad for him and the $15 million guaranteed money he received from the money he made as a signing bonus in 2012, plus the $7 million he made as a bonus, the $3 million he made in base salary, and the $3 million he made under his rookie deal.

I'm kind of horrified that you think domestic violence falls under the purview of "political correctness".

The other thing is when you're a professional athlete with any sort of celebrity you probably should realize that anything you do, especially in public with any type of cameras present, really loses any sense of privacy.

Again, I'm not defending Ray Rice or his actions - I'm saying let the man and his wife work out their problems on their own. Let him pay his penalty thru the judicial system, and have some perspective with respect to his livlihood and what that means for his family.

You are harming his wife all over again, and you are harming his family. Leave them alone, and let them heal and move forward with their lives - it is mind-boggling that this view is considered heresy.

[pbmax]

I think Czabe's assessments are nearly spot on (go read his post).

Rice admitted to hitting his girlfriend. His fiance acknowledged and sat up there confirming it. The league and police reviewed and provided their punishments.... but since there's a video - you suspend him indefinitely? Rice didn't lie about any of it. It now appears the NFL has, though.

I'm sick of even watching ESPN because it's turning into the 'Days of our NFLives'.

If some schmuck at NFL HQ hid the tape from Rodger - I'd have to guess it's the case for 'plausible deniability' - to me, a sign of weak culture/leadership. And if every punishment is warranted based on video... where's the actual morality/fairness. A crime isn't worse if it's on tape. It MAY be worse for public opinion and therefore the NFL makes a sacrificial lamb.

Imagine if we saw Josh Brent's actual crash (or slamming drinks before hand) instead of still photos. 10 games for killing a teammate! 'Lifetime' for hitting someone.

Bunch of hypocrites.

Brent might be a bad example, though video might have affected his criminal prosecution. He was probably punished according to the Drug and Alcohol Policy by the NFL and it did not have options under than policy, its controlled by the CBA.

Which is precisely why the Personal Conduct Policy has backfired so tremendously in Rice's case. Because Roger is judge, jury and executioner he has virtually unlimited discretion. And almost no one to back him up except by personal testimonial. The Policy is unpopular with the players so they won't help. So when his 2 game decree was met with near universal derision, he immediately began to backtrack.

Remember, the NFL is always looking for new revenue streams and women are one demo they are targeting. The reason the owners like Rogers is that he has been helping increase revenue by leaps and bounds. This incident is a threat to that. Pink clothes and all.

So while Roger is in retreat, they are vulnerable to other revelations or bad PR. When the tape leaks, they are in a full fledged panic. Yes they are hypocrites, but they are hypocrites because this was never about justice, it was about potential football revenue.

Had Goodell experience outside of football, or had he listened to Tagliabue's critique, he would have a similar system to Personal Conduct that they had for Drugs and Alcohol. He would have had a system to rely on and back him up, plus arbitration or access to courts. Retreat wouldn't have been necessary, They could have changed the policy to issue harsher suspensions to satisfy critics and been done with it.

[Striker]

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

Because if there are two things that are equitable it's this and the Holocaust.

[pbmax]

No thinking required, no perspective, no concern for his wife or family... that's how you people think, or rather don't think.

I find your definition of concern for his family quite flawed. Ignoring it, sweeping it under the rug because its private business does nothing to help.

Does it need to be on the news? No. Did it need to be made public and the police involved? Yes.

[3irty1]

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

So you're a benevolent martyr for standing up to your moral inferiors by calling them out for the monsters they are, I'm one of them for thinking you're a hypocrite, and anyone else is weak and corrupt for not joining you?

[pbmax]

The German citizens who said "... leave the Jews alone" were similarly attacked by the mob mentality that swept that country 80 years ago. PC is no different - conform to groupthink, or face the wrath of the majority.

The weak and corrupt are the ones that go along without protest.

I'm sorry, but is Ray Rice currently even detained? Could this comparison be any less apt?

There is a significant difference between condemnation of an actual act by an individual and incarceration without cause.