Shield's testing the market

[wist43]

I didn't say injury to defensive linemen; I said injury may have limited Capers's choices for preferred defenders

You're just trying to be shifty now, lol... you know all along that my complaint is that we don't have enough DL on the field - so why point out my complaints with your observation??

Are you saying in 1st and goal, Capers may actually have wanted to go to a 2-3, or a 1-5?? What sense would that make?? The issue there is stopping the run, hence, the need for more beef up front - and not just beef, but beef with hands on the ground. With only a yard to gain, if you don't get under the OL pads, then you're going to give ground - ground you can't afford to give - again, hence, you need beef on the field, and facing up the OL.

Neal standing up doesn't get you that, nor does bringing in another DB - what was needed, clearly, was at least 1 more DL.

[wist43]

If you count Neal, he had three. And Pick and Raji are his run stoppers. It's not like he had his pass defense 2-4 out there - which consists of D. Jones and Neal as the DL. So the scheme is entirely different from the 'base' 2-4 you keep harping on, and is actually closer to a typical run-stopping base 3-4.

You can't count Neal, b/c he was standing up... in goal-to-go situations you need DL with their hands on the ground to negate the surge of the OL.

By standing up, you give that leverage up before the ball is snapped.

[Fritz]

You win in this instance.

[pbmax]

Well, hold on declaring a winner. Much of the debate from this Bear's sequence centers on two facts that we can only guess at. In general, the play inside the 5 looks like its the wrong personnel and I agree with wist the threat of run is so great, you need more bodies inside for your plan at this down and distance. But you also have to consider match ups and active roster decisions for any single game. You are going to give up something to get something with a single opponent. Once you determine what the Bears are going to do to beat you in the game (pass) you plan your roster and game plan accordingly. We also don't know what the Bears play call tendency was that close in the red zone.

The Packers, with Wilson inactive, were not expecting a bulldozer attack from the Bears. Their O line was improved this year but it wasn't much of a threat to run. Not compared to Marshall, Jeffrey and Bennett. Hence Wilson was an easy inactive.

Neal and Jones didn't spend much time playing run defense in their version of the 2-4 and neither was a D line starter in a 3-4. Daniels and Boyd were more versatile, but both logged more time is pass rush nickel than base D. But I am not sure who logged the bulk of Jolly's snaps in base once he was hurt.

So the game time decision is to put players in who have not practiced much in the alignment or you stick with what you practiced and use backups at LB. They stuck with what they were practicing, matched up and got burned. But before declaring a lost cause, you are going to give up a touchdown inside the 5 yard line about 70% of the time. So the question that McCarthy and Capers must ask themselves is how much defending and increasing your 30% chance is worth in terms of roster construction, practice and game plan.

I think the run D must be rethought because outside of the start of the 2013 season, it has been horrendous. Injuries make it hard to predict future problems. And I don't think its 2-4 anymore as those numbers have come down from 2011, but 3irty1 could be right.

But I also don't want the run D rethought because of that goal line stand. Its not as common a game situation as the middle or other end of the field is. And if Matthews and BJones were healthy, I might prefer to play for the pass against this opponent.

[mraynrand]

You can't count Neal, b/c he was standing up... in goal-to-go situations you need DL with their hands on the ground to negate the surge of the OL.

By standing up, you give that leverage up before the ball is snapped.

That's just absurd. Neal won his battle, whether his hand was in the dirt or not.

[mraynrand]

if he saw something good about him, he must be watching him in the shower or something, because no one that saw him play the last 2 years on the field saw much to get excited about

Darth Vader was a piece of shit for 30 plus years. Hopefully Raji can turn it around in less time, and without dying.

[mraynrand]

Well, hold on declaring a winner.....

trying to split the baby again, I see....

[Smeefers]

I think he had just checked out on the Packers... he had made up his mind he was gone a couple of years ago, and as Capers continued to misuse him, it just soured his attitude all the more.

I don't blame him. He was wasted the way Capers used him.

Perry will be the next one to bolt for the door as soon as he can. Everyone is on him for underperformance, but he wasn't shy about not wanting to play OLB to begin with - the Packers draft him, and viola!!! just add water, instant OLB?? I'm sure he was seriously bummed when the Packers took him.

After Perry will be Jones.

I don't see Capers changing what he does; and, I think TT and MM have proven that Capers can consistently run one of the worst defenses in the league and they won't do anything about it, so by the time those guys's contracts come up, they'll be as frustrated and ready to leave as Raji was.

I don't understand the "I don't blame him" talk that you constantly pepper in when you think guys are tanking on purpose. If someone is sucking, I blame the shit out of them. If they're sucking on purpose? I don't want a cancer like that anywhere near my team. I don't blame Raji for not getting any sacks last year because he was taken out on passing downs. I do blame him for being part of a defense that was a sieve against the run in the second half of the season. I do blame Raji for looking like he just stopped caring. I blame him for not keeping that motor going. I absolutely loved Raji when I saw him sitting on the ground, legs in front of him, exhausted as we were getting our asses handed to us a year or two ago. I want to see my players leave every ounce they got on the field week in and week out.

The dude is getting paid millions of dollars to play the game. If he can't muster up a good attitude about it, then fuck him right in the ass. Blame's on him.

[mraynrand]

I don't understand the "I don't blame him" talk that you constantly pepper in when you think guys are tanking on purpose. If someone is sucking, I blame the shit out of them. If they're sucking on purpose? I don't want a cancer like that anywhere near my team. I don't blame Raji for not getting any sacks last year because he was taken out on passing downs. I do blame him for being part of a defense that was a sieve against the run in the second half of the season. I do blame Raji for looking like he just stopped caring. I blame him for not keeping that motor going. I absolutely loved Raji when I saw him sitting on the ground, legs in front of him, exhausted as we were getting our asses handed to us a year or two ago. I want to see my players leave every ounce they got on the field week in and week out.

The dude is getting paid millions of dollars to play the game. If he can't muster up a good attitude about it, then fuck him right in the ass. Blame's on him.

Preach it, brother!!!

[woodbuck27]

Fritz, lol... you said Capers had to play the 2-4 b/c he didn't have a full compliment of players to choose from, i.e. he didn't have enough healthy DL to choose from.

He had 2 DL on the field in those 2-4, goal-to-go, alignments. He had 5 to choose from; and one of his constant 2-4 LB's, Brad Jones, was not even active for the game!!

So your contention is without merit - that's the point. Capers could have had 3 DL, or 4 DL, or even an actual "goal line defense" on the field - he certainly had enough DL to do it. So your point of injury leading to an insufficient number defensive linemen available simply doesn't hold water.

Dom " Stubborn Man" Capers ( born August 7, 1950 )

2028 - DC For The Green Bay Packers ....

[woodbuck27]

This is best known to fans as the "3 man rush" or "prevent" defense we saw so much through 2010 and 2011.

Having AJ Hawk (who's absolutely robbed the Green Bay Packers ) and Brad Jones stick around.

Now "prevents" the Green Bay Packers small 'd' defense from ever improving.

[bobblehead]

Looked it up... Jones signed a 3 year, $11.75 million contract.

Maybe it was Hawks that was 4 years, $22 million...

Regardless, they are both overpaid. The bottom line is - they don't make plays!!

I agree we need to upgrade both positions, but both guys are in this system for several years and we all knwo you need said veterans to run the Capers D. imo neither are overpaid, they are paid just right...below average and average, which is how they play.

[bobblehead]

Fritz, you really should look this stuff up before you try to poke me in the eye, lol...

I looked it up for week 17 against the Bears. As it happens, Brad Jones was inactive - so, since he's every 2-4 lovers poster boy, it would seem all the more reason not to be in the 2-4.

Beyond that, we had the following defensive linemen active for that game: Raji, Pickett, Daniels, Boyd, and D. Jones.

Of course Jolly was already on IR, Worthy was an injury inactive; but Wilson was a healthy scratch. In place of Wilson being active, MM had 3 QB's active - when there is absolutely no need for that, b/c you can have 3 suited up, and if your starter goes down, the 3rd QB can become active, but the starter cannot reenter the game. So there is absolutely no need to have 3 QB's active - ever.

Another caveat, Mulumba started in place of Perry.

I am convinced that CJ wilson slept with MM's wife.

[pbmax]

I am convinced that CJ wilson slept with MM's wife.

I heard he punched Trgo.

In other news, Raji should also be blamed for simply not being able to get off single blocking to make a play.

Here is a challenge: can you construct a 3-3 front that can rush the passer better than the 2-4? In other words, who is the down lineman you want pass rushing more than Perry or Neal?

[red]

I heard he punched Trgo.

In other news, Raji should also be blamed for simply not being able to get off single blocking to make a play.

Here is a challenge: can you construct a 3-3 front that can rush the passer better than the 2-4? In other words, who is the down lineman you want pass rushing more than Perry or Neal?

i'm pretty sure thats what we drafted datone for, and maybe worthey and neal before him