Shield's testing the market

[KYPack]

even guaranteed money is funny these day. we hear about guys that sign a 60 million dollar deal with 30 of it guaranteed. then we see the deal, and theres a 5 million dollar signing bonus, and the first years salary is fully guaranteed, another 5 million. then theres a 20 million dollar roster bonus due at the beginning of year 3, when his salary is also 15 million.

guess whos gonna be got before year three and not see that 20 million dollar "guaranteed" money?

and the players don't care about real vs funny money, thats why these asshole sign these deals. its all ego

look at the jennings dal last year. minnesota gave him like a dollar more then we offered him so he could save face and say he was going to the highest bidder, but its all funny money. jennings probably won't see the last 3 years of that deal, yet he probably would have in green bay. jennings took the deal that looked better in the headlines

when players go from one team to the next, they're not telling team A that team B offered then a 5 year 50 million dollar deal with 45 of that million coming in the last 2 years. he's going to tell team A that team B offered 5 years 50 million period

its not public knowledge until well after the player signs just how good these deals are. so in my example, team A has no clue if the offer the player got from team B is legit, or full of fake money

We are far apart in arguing this deal, Red one.

Nobody is getting fooled by paper deals.

The teams and the agents well know what money is out there, how much of it is guaranteed, and the term of deals.

I know you think the players are stupid shits (& in a lotta cases you are right), but triple sharp people know these deals to the penny.

There are many cases of people getting cut before the second year schedule kicks in.

The agents and the teams have no illusions.

It's a cold business based on money.

All that said, we agree on the outcome.

Neal and Shield will turn up deals that the GBP can't match, IMHO.

[SMBASS]

The point I was trying to get across was that blaming the Packers for "not getting it done", as some have, is kind of silly,

Not intending to harp on you Patler and I agree with this part of your post considering at this time we really have no idea regarding all the facets of the negotiations. (Maybe we'll learn more about it in the future.) I just think our leverage to get Shields re-signed would have been better prior to the announcement of the cap increase for 2014 because most, "experts" didn't believe the increase was going to be as substantial as it is and it gives other teams more leverage to counter offer now. (Agents can also get greedier.) As Red stated, if the amount wanted by Shields was similar to the deal Tim Jennings got then I think we really blew it. (Once again, who knows if this is true or not.) I just hate the thought of losing a player we developed and I feel is ascending. Especially with the deficiencies we already have on our defense.

[Patler]

The point I was trying to get across was that blaming the Packers for "not getting it done", as some have, is kind of silly,

Not intending to harp on you Patler and I agree with this part of your post considering at this time we really have no idea regarding all the facets of the negotiations. (Maybe we'll learn more about it in the future.) I just think our leverage to get Shields re-signed would have been better prior to the announcement of the cap increase for 2014 because most, "experts" didn't believe the increase was going to be as substantial as it is and it gives other teams more leverage to counter offer now. (Agents can also get greedier.) As Red stated, if the amount wanted by Shields was similar to the deal Tim Jennings got then I think we really blew it. (Once again, who knows if this is true or not.) I just hate the thought of losing a player we developed and I feel is ascending. Especially with the deficiencies we already have on our defense.

Everyone has the same amount more to work with. Other teams have $x more than they expected, but so do the Packers. I don't see that as changing the negotiating field all that much.

Again, if Shields really wanted to test the FA market, there wasn't much GB could do.

[Patler]

even guaranteed money is funny these day. we hear about guys that sign a 60 million dollar deal with 30 of it guaranteed. then we see the deal, and theres a 5 million dollar signing bonus, and the first years salary is fully guaranteed, another 5 million. then theres a 20 million dollar roster bonus due at the beginning of year 3, when his salary is also 15 million.

Who would ever consider a future roster bonus as part of the guaranteed money?

Most reports I see now days are fairly accurate and break compensation into at least three general categories, that which is truly guaranteed, that which is likely to be paid (basically includes everything he will get in the early years when cutting him is almost impossible for salary cap reasons) and the rest. Most articles are careful to even breakout workout bonuses and game day roster bonuses as not being part of the guaranteed money.

[gbgary]

EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!!!

our shit secondary is about to get even worse

this is what happens what you sit on your ass for a month and a half instead of getting shit done ASAP. this deal should have been locked up months ago

DO NOT LET YOUR BETTER PLAYERS TEST FREE AGENCY

yup...if he isn't signed the d will be even weaker, they'll have to address his loss in the draft which only makes
addressing our other needs even more difficult. very short sighted by a team that's got plenty of money. looks like we'll be the youngest (ie least experienced) team again next year. the rodgers window isn't getting any bigger.

[wist43]

Seriously, when it comes to our defense, I don't think players matter in the least...

To be sure, losing Neal and Shields is going to hurt, but we were garbage with them here.

TT, MM, and Capers think throwing too much money at players like Hawk and Brad Jones is a good investment; drafting players ill-suited to playing the scheme doesn't matter; and in the case of Perry, drafting a player to play a position he specifically said he didn't want to play - is the way to build a defense.


Add to that the misuse of a player like Raji, and playing 2-4 as the base - and you have a hopeless situation.

Stevie Wonder could see the lunacy of all that.

Seriously, we might as well just forget about the defense in terms of investing in players, and concentrate on making our offense as elite as possible.

[Smeefers]

I think it would be kind of funny to see Shields giant green G while he's wearing another uniform.

http://coedbc.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/sam-shields-tat-intro.jpg

[red]

you know what else i don't like about letting sam just walk

i know two teams that could really need CB help

the bears and vikings. and i'd say there's a good chance he could end up at one of those two teams

[Smeefers]

you know what else i don't like about letting sam just walk

i know two teams that could really need CB help

the bears and vikings. and i'd say there's a good chance he could end up at one of those two teams

I think it's just time to admit to ourselves that whenever we have a decent player leave in free agency, there's a good chance they'll end up in the division. SS could end up in any three of our rival's camp. Raji would only really fit in with the bears. James Jones would look good in blue. J mike could end up in purple. Starks is the only FA we have who most likely wouldn't end up in the division.

[red]

Who would ever consider a future roster bonus as part of the guaranteed money?

it happens with almost every deal the second the agent announces the deal, its not until days or even weeks later that the media digs up the true value

here' an example, mario williams

from NFL.com http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...h-sixyear-deal

Williams' deal is for six years and is worth $96 million -- $50 million guaranteed -- with the potential to go up to $100 million, a league source told NFL Network's Albert Breer.

heres the real breakdown that came out later from profootballtalk http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...williams-deal/

1. $19 million signing bonus.

2. $5.9 million fully guaranteed base salary in 2012.

3. $8 million option bonus in 2013.

4. $6.5 million base salary in 2013, guaranteed for injury only at the time of signing, fully guaranteed second day of 2013 league year.

5. $10.6 million roster bonus in 2014, guaranteed for injury only at time of signing.

6. $1.9 million base salary in 2014.

7. $1 million roster bonus in 2015.

8. $12.1 million base salary in 2015.

9. $2.5 million roster bonus in 2016.

10. $11.5 million base salary in 2016.

11. $3.5 million roster bonus in 2017.

12. $11.4 million base salary in 2017.

13. $100,000 workout bonus in 2012, with $500,000 workout bonuses in each year from 2013 to 2016.

13. $400,000 Pro Bowl incentives per year.

14. $400,000 in additional incentives per year.

so even though it was announced as 50 million "guaranteed", so of the money was in the form of roster bonuses that were due in later years. my inderstanding of it is, he could have been cut last offseason and only get 24.9 of that "guaranteed" 50 million dollars

and before anyone talks about how the team would be able to cut him in 2013 due to cap reasons, yes they could have. cutting williams last year would have resulted in a penalty that was 1.5 million or so more then his cap number would have been if on the team

hell, he's due a 10.6 million dollar roster bonus right now that was part of that original "guaranteed" money

[red]

I think it's just time to admit to ourselves that whenever we have a decent player leave in free agency, there's a good chance they'll end up in the division. SS could end up in any three of our rival's camp. Raji would only really fit in with the bears. James Jones would look good in blue. J mike could end up in purple. Starks is the only FA we have who most likely wouldn't end up in the division.

well, i was only really worried about the bears and vikings, who really worries about the lions?

if anything, they need our charity

[Pugger]

Is Sam worth $11M if we tag him? Our D needs good players but is Shields really worth this kind of coin? From what I hear the FA market might be flooded by corners so if we lose Sam maybe we could end up with somebody better in the end.

[mission]

Can't be 100% draft and develop and let guys like Sam Shields get away.

What's the point?

[red]

Can't be 100% draft and develop and let guys like Sam Shields get away.

What's the point?

agreed 110%

[red]

Is Sam worth $11M if we tag him? Our D needs good players but is Shields really worth this kind of coin? From what I hear the FA market might be flooded by corners so if we lose Sam maybe we could end up with somebody better in the end.

in order to do that, we would have to be players in free agency

i'll believe that when i see it