Shield's testing the market

[Brandon494]

Yea remember he was a 1st round talent that skipped to the Vikings in the 4th round but I know TT will never make that move. What if we let Shields go and signed Byrd...I doubt he'll want to give Byrd the move hes looking for though.

[wist43]

I agree that Raji was playing way too many snaps a few years ago - think he was in the high 80's. This year he was at 59% of the snaps. The perplexing thing is that he has seemingly got worse the less snaps he plays.

I think he had just checked out on the Packers... he had made up his mind he was gone a couple of years ago, and as Capers continued to misuse him, it just soured his attitude all the more.

I don't blame him. He was wasted the way Capers used him.

Perry will be the next one to bolt for the door as soon as he can. Everyone is on him for underperformance, but he wasn't shy about not wanting to play OLB to begin with - the Packers draft him, and viola!!! just add water, instant OLB?? I'm sure he was seriously bummed when the Packers took him.

After Perry will be Jones.

I don't see Capers changing what he does; and, I think TT and MM have proven that Capers can consistently run one of the worst defenses in the league and they won't do anything about it, so by the time those guys's contracts come up, they'll be as frustrated and ready to leave as Raji was.

[wist43]

Is your problem with the defense really the 2-4 on the whole the way that most teams use it or do you hate the version that comes out on most 1st downs and sometimes on 2nd down that features run stuffing personnel in a pass rushing formation? Pretty much every 3-4 team runs more 2-something than they do their base D so lets first start with acknowledging that because I have a hard time knowing exactly how much of what you're saying is sarcastic exaggeration.

I don't think most teams run a lot of 2-4. Certainly 4-3 teams never run it, and most 3-4 teams will only run it as a change up.

Watching some Baltimore games this year, they consistently ran a 3-3 in the situations that we run a 2-4; and true to a base 3-4 team, they actually ran a 3-4 as their base. The did run some 2-4 occassionally, but they got burned running it, and immediately scrapped it for the 3-3. We get burned running the 2-4, and everyone says "it's the best we can expect"?? I don't accept that.

Capers runs the 2-4 as his base more often than not. As I said, and I can't remember who looked it up, but someone on this board did some research and it turned out that the Packers run 2-4 more than any team in the league.

And yes, I absolutely, posivitely, hate, hate, hate running the 2-4 on 1st down; 2nd and 6; 1st and goal (as that idiot Capers did against the Bears); on and on...

I see the 2-4 as a gimmick - even with all-pro personnel like the Niners, I wouldn't run it. I think it is a weak front, that takes options away in terms of stunts, twists, and blitzes. To my way of thinking, I want the OL to be forced to make calls every play - if they get it right, which they usually will, then it becomes physicality; but when they miss an audible or adjustment, the DC should be able to spring a free rusher at least several times/game. The 2-4 is the vanilla of all vanilla formations.

The 2-4 is far too static and predictable. Add to that, the fact that Capers is misusing the personnel, and you have the recipe for one of the worst defenses in the league. To me, it's obvious... I really do find it amazing that so many of you defend it.

I'd agree that the whole 2-4 with Pickett and Raji as a situational run defense was not an idea that was worth renewing once Woodson aged out of stardom. I find it even more offensive that the answer was simply to draft a new Woodson to be the new gem of the defense (Hayward, Hyde). They're insanely lucky that those guys have been pretty good but its super flawed to draft anyone and expect them to carry Woodson's jock. That defense should have died with Woodson IMO. But I don't think the fatty version of the 2-4 was "idiotic" back when it worked. My criticism of Capers is basically that he's living in the recent past. I don't blame him that Raji and Perry aren't perennial pro bowlers. They are in a position to succeed if they were capable.

I don't like the 2-4 in general... and I don't think it ever "worked". If we get a stop out of that front, I look at it like we dodged a bullet, got lucky, the other team didn't run the right play, etc...

I see no good in the alignment at all. It's a weak front; players are misused; the strength of the defense is in the DL, and with the 2-4 you necessarily have all but 2 of those guys on the sideline, while conversely you have 2 of the most pedestrian defensive players in the league on the field for every play - Brad Jones and AJ Hawk.

It's dumb in every way imaginable to my way of thinking. Capers talks about stopping the run is always his #1 priority, but you wouldn't know it by his playing 6 man fronts, giving up a high YPC Avg, and high total rushing yds almost every game.

There would be an argument for it if by playing the 2-4 we were a lights out pass defense, but we're not - we're one of the worst pass defenses in the league on top of being one of the worst run defenses!!!

Seriously, isn't watching a Capers run defense nothing short of painful?? The numbers bear me out... we're a complete disaster on that side of the ball, and have been for 3 years running.

[pbmax]

Baltimore only runs a 3-3 if you believe their base front is a 4-3. When Dumerville and Suggs are rushing the passer, there are only two other lineman on the field.

Nearly half of the teams in the NFL run the 3-4 and they ALL run 2-4 nickel. The difference is amount and down and distance, not scheme.

This argument boils down to: would like to have Terrel Suggs at OLB/rush end rather than Perry.

[mraynrand]

Perry will be the next one to bolt for the door as soon as he can. Everyone is on him for underperformance, but he wasn't shy about not wanting to play OLB to begin with - the Packers draft him, and viola!!! just add water, instant OLB?? I'm sure he was seriously bummed when the Packers took him.

That's just silly. Perry is asked to rush the passer most of all. Not asked to cover in space as much as perhaps a typical OLB. At ROLB, he rushed all the time, especially in the 2-4. If he wasn't rushing, he had run responsibility, and as a converted DE, he was very good at it. Sort of like playing 3-4 with a ROLB who can rush. Perry might balk if they don't let him play ROLB, where he has been the best. APRH, he will likely be a pretty good ROLB. This requires they keep Neal (or replace him) and keep playing him at a down lineman in the 2-4 and keep Matthews at LOLB and/or hybrid (my suggestion).

Jones should love the 2-4; most of his bigger plays have come off that formation (think sack at Dallas).

[KYPack]

I started a play-by-play analysis of the defensive fronts used. So far, I'm though the first half of the opener against SF. The Packers used the 2-4 on 10 of 37 plays with mixed success. Only once did they use it on an obvious running down and it also yielded two runs for losses and a sack, as well as a third down stop of a Kap run. Also yielded two large plays, and both TDs, but the coverage was terrible on both, and one series started at the 12 following Lacy's fumble. D. Jones and Neal were exclusively used at the two down-linemen in the 2-4, so you could argue it was psycho package I suppose. Interesting that Neal and Matthews did line up on the same side in the 2-4 and that produced pressure. Next: more first half detail and the second half.

Conclusions at half: APRH, Neal and Matthews on the same side is a good combo; re-sign Neal, get Matthews healthy. Improve secondary. Don't run 2-4 on third and less than 3.

Good job, Rand.

With all the data and sites out there, you'd think you could get this kind of information readily.

But, when it come down to it, you have to do it the old fashioned way and watch tape and stat the stuff up.

The 2-4 is not our pre-dominant D by any stretch and isn't ruining our world when it's implemented.

In the play-offs, SF ran the 2-4 way more than we had all season and was somewhat effective in doing it.

[wist43]

Baltimore only runs a 3-3 if you believe their base front is a 4-3. When Dumerville and Suggs are rushing the passer, there are only two other lineman on the field.

Nearly half of the teams in the NFL run the 3-4 and they ALL run 2-4 nickel. The difference is amount and down and distance, not scheme.

This argument boils down to: would like to have Terrel Suggs at OLB/rush end rather than Perry.

Why in poo-perfect hell would a 4-3 team run a 2-4??

Invest all those $millions in DL, and then plunk their ass on the bench??

Get real max.

[wist43]

Good job, Rand.

With all the data and sites out there, you'd think you could get this kind of information readily.

But, when it come down to it, you have to do it the old fashioned way and watch tape and stat the stuff up.

The 2-4 is not our pre-dominant D by any stretch and isn't ruining our world when it's implemented.

In the play-offs, SF ran the 2-4 way more than we had all season and was somewhat effective in doing it.

The 2-4 was our most common defense.

ayn is saying he's going thru the SF game - about the only team we played all year in which we didn't run as much 2-4 was against SF, b/c of Gore and their stout OL.

Granted I missed a lot of the season, but of what I did see, and when I did tune into games - we were almost always in a 2-4.

[wist43]

Guys, go ahead and keep on with your singing the praises of Capers and the 2-4...

You're homers thru and thru... blowout losses in the playoffs, 31st ranking in '11; 25th ranking this year; disgruntled players; massive breakdowns... it all just bounces off you with no effect.

Some of us aren't content with embarrassing loses; and dismal performances - but for the majority of Packerrats - it's all good. To be sure - Capers is your man

[3irty1]

Every 3-4 team runs a 2-4 as their go-to nickel defense although some teams like Pittsburg tend to mostly flip between a 3-4 and 2-3 dime with relatively little nickel at all. The heavy 2-4 definitely worked and worked well when it was rolled out as a one-size fits all defense in 2010. It balanced out a defense who's biggest strength was stuffing the run and by putting those run stuffing personel into a pass defense alignment had a well balanced defense. Chuck was a solid inside presense, that 2-4 was nearly a 4-3 when it needed to be.

[3irty1]

Guys, go ahead and keep on with your singing the praises of Capers and the 2-4...

You're homers thru and thru... blowout losses in the playoffs, 31st ranking in '11; 25th ranking this year; disgruntled players; massive breakdowns... it all just bounces off you with no effect.

Some of us aren't content with embarrassing loses; and dismal performances - but for the majority of Packerrats - it's all good. To be sure - Capers is your man

No one is singing the praises of the 2-4. I'm saying the opposite. Believe it or not there is a middle ground where someone can critisize Capers without thinking he's completely retarded and incompetant. In fact if you give credit where credit is due, some people might take your critisisms seriously once in a while.

[woodbuck27]

I agree that Raji was playing way too many snaps a few years ago - think he was in the high 80's. This year he was at 59% of the snaps. The perplexing thing is that he has seemingly got worse the less snaps he plays.

His head is screwed up.

[woodbuck27]

PFT released their top 100 FA list.

Good news Shields is the 5th rated CB - bad news is he's 15th overall.

There are a goodly number of Packers on that list - 7 - Shields, Raji, JJ, Starks, Finley, Neale and EDS. Seems others have a pretty good opinion of our guys.

Neale picked a good year to stay healthy and have something approaching a break-out season.

link - http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ent-hot-100-3/

" There are a goodly number of Packers on that list - 7 - Shields, Raji, JJ, Starks, Finley, Neale and EDS. Seems others have a pretty good opinion of our guys." Guiness

RCB Sam Shields (re- sign or have an outstanding backup plan with a solid vet CB)

B. J. Raji (It's OVER ! He's burnt out in Green Bay or a BUST so let hi go).

WR James Jones ... If TT didn't make James Jones an offer that sucks...He started out last season as the Green Bay Packers #2 WR that man deserved that much respect from Ted Thompson. James Jones want s to remain a Packer so such disrespect sends a double bad message of no return on "loyalty". The locker room looks at such things seriously and such disregard (as no offer) may send a message throughout the NFL and players will avoid Green Bay and TT's attitude.

RB James Starks - The one two punch ( Lacy and Starks) with #2 RB James Starks worked for the Packers and with him going elsewhere we'll have a ? mark at RB again. if we lose James Starks he has to be replaced in this off season. We havn't seemn enough of J. Franklin to assess his strength and DuJuan Harris is coming off serious injury and a year away from the NFL. I'm thinking that James Starks will sign elsewhere and it won't' take long into FA to see that happen.

JerMichael Finley...it seems that MM is in love with this TE and he's inconsistent and now with this last serious injury at greater risk.i say it's time to move on without JF as a TE. We need to find a decent TE that will improve our Red Zone offense and stretch the field with yards after the catch.

OLB/DE Mike Neal stepped up his game last season and he can help CM's put heat on the opposition QB. I believe he deserves to be retained as he's a prime example as is Sam Shields. That "draft and develop" does work. If Sam Shields and Mike Neal are allowed to walk the much talked about Green Bay Packers and (TT's and MM's) et all Draft and Develop Program is going to approach looking like nothing short of horseshit.

Center Evan Dietrich-Smith is ranked in the TOP Ten of NFL centers (maybe as high as 5th best !?) and Aaron Rodgers needs a center he can develop a rapport with. Obviously it makes solid sense to retain Evan Dietrich - Smith at center. Ted Thompson might have made signing E D-S a priority and it sure looks like TT is playing a different sort of hardball so far this off season.

TT has a way of causing me to scratch my head. Actually if I allow it ...Ted Thompson (and Mike McCarthy) can drive me up the wall.

I'd be seeing logical... or what makes decent sense to me. If Ted Thompson manages to resign all of: RCB Sam Shields, OLB / DE Mike Neal and Center E D-S and to resign James Starks is a bonus.

I feel it's best to let high draft picks BJ Raji and JerMichael Finley walk. That's just the way the cookie has crumbled. Too bad so sad. Those two high draft picks are BUSTS in Green Bay. Ted Thompson cannot afford anymore time and CAP space on those two.

GO PACK GO !

[wist43]

Every 3-4 team runs a 2-4 as their go-to nickel defense although some teams like Pittsburg tend to mostly flip between a 3-4 and 2-3 dime with relatively little nickel at all. The heavy 2-4 definitely worked and worked well when it was rolled out as a one-size fits all defense in 2010. It balanced out a defense who's biggest strength was stuffing the run and by putting those run stuffing personel into a pass defense alignment had a well balanced defense. Chuck was a solid inside presense, that 2-4 was nearly a 4-3 when it needed to be.

You'd have to prove to me that every team runs a 2-4 as their "go-to" nickel... there's no way that is the case.

The 4-3 teams simply go to a 4-2, and have for as long as father time has been growing his beard.

Now if you want to argue that most versions of the 2-4 are in fact, a 4-2?? I'll go along with that, but if that is the case, a team better have the 4-3 defensive personnel to pull it off, i.e. big budget DE's, and gap penetrating DT's.

The way Capers runs it, he's saying he can stop the run too... as you've pointed out. Of course that is not the case - teams run on us on 3rd and 6, and get the 1st down!!!

Or in these cases when Forte walks into the end zone on 1st and goal!!!

At 2:00 and 2:53 Capers runs the 2-4 on 1st and goal.

wow, just wow...

[wist43]

No one is singing the praises of the 2-4. I'm saying the opposite. Believe it or not there is a middle ground where someone can critisize Capers without thinking he's completely retarded and incompetant. In fact if you give credit where credit is due, some people might take your critisisms seriously once in a while.

In the past 3 years - when has Capers deserved any credit??

A game here and there... about 1/2 of last year the stats looked okay - but then disaster the rest of the way.

You guys desperately seek to find silver lining, when there is none.