James Starks back on 2 year deal

[pbmax]

Stubby claimed to have a whole offense for Harris before he got hurt last year. Either that's still true and Harris is in like Fynn, or Stubby changed his mind when he saw what he had in Lacy and Starks duo. Or both. If they keep Harris, it is both of course. Question is, is whether Stubby was just engaging in wishful thinking, or if he really though he had something special in Harris. Question 2 is whether the offense can do both the Lacy/Stark plug duo and a Harris offense in the same game plan. Seems like a lot on the table, but if the Pack doesn't replace Finley and Jones, maybe it becomes necessary.

I remember M3 being absolutely convinced, I just don't remember the same level of excitement about Harris as Lacy. Think of him more as change up, but perhaps I would feel differently if I watched the Chicago game again.

[red]

DuJuan Harris 2012

[B]2012 Regular Season[/B]
                                           Rush Rush Rush Rush Rece Rece Rece Rece Scor Scor
Rk    G       Date    Age  Tm  Opp  Result  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD  Rec  Yds  Y/R   TD   TD  Pts
1    13 2012-12-09 24-097 GNB  DET W 27-20    7   31 4.43    1    0    0         0    1    6
2    14 2012-12-16 24-104 GNB  CHI W 21-13    5   27 5.40    0    0    0         0    0    0
3    15 2012-12-23 24-111 GNB  TEN  W 55-7    8   29 3.63    1    0    0         0    1    6
4    16 2012-12-30 24-118 GNB  MIN L 34-37   14   70 5.00    0    2   17 8.50    0    0    0
           4 Games                   3-1-0   34  157 4.62    2    2   17 8.50    0    2   12
[B]2012 Playoffs[/B]                                                                                             
                                           Rush Rush Rush Rush Rece Rece  Rece Rece Scor Scor
Rk    G       Date    Age  Tm  Opp  Result  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD  Rec  Yds   Y/R   TD   TD  Pts
1    17 2013-01-05 24-124 GNB  MIN W 24-10   17   47 2.76    1    5   53 10.60    0    1    6
2    18 2013-01-12 24-131 GNB  SFO L 31-45   11   53 4.82    1    2   11  5.50    0    1    6
           2 Games                   1-1-0   28  100 3.57    2    7   64  9.14    0    2   12

OK. Help me along here. I remember him getting better as he got more carries and he had some nice runs that other backs were not breaking that year. The O line wasn't doing him many favors, though EDS did help after he went in for Saturday.

When did Harris convince you he had it?

yeah, i never did understand where all the harris love came from

his big breakout at the end of 2012 was 6 games where he had 257 yards and 4 TD's. just over 40 yards per game

and based on this, people were ready to make him the starter before we drafted lacy. hell, even after we drafted lacy there was talk of harris being the starter

i never saw it, and i don't know what game M3 was watching for him to think that either

[mraynrand]

I just figured Stubby got real tired of having his cherished deep vertical game shut down, and not having anyone able to shred it underneath. Harris was that guy - run and pass catching. But when they got Lacy, they could punish those 6 man boxes with the run. And Lacy is much better than Harris as a RB so that they actually can force guys up into the box and scorch defenses with play action. APRH

[pbmax]

I just figured Stubby got real tired of having his cherished deep vertical game shut down, and not having anyone able to shred it underneath. Harris was that guy - run and pass catching. But when they got Lacy, they could punish those 6 man boxes with the run. And Lacy is much better than Harris as a RB so that they actually can force guys up into the box and scorch defenses with play action. APRH

I agree he wants team's to pay for 2 deep safeties. If they get 3irty1's deep threat he mentioned earlier, they are going to look like the 1976 Oakland Raiders.

[Fritz]

I agree he wants team's to pay for 2 deep safeties. If they get 3irty1's deep threat he mentioned earlier, they are going to look like the 1976 Oakland Raiders.

Is Jordy Nelson Fred Biletnikoff?

Per your other post: Good Darly Lamonica reference, too.

Can Rodgers ever figure out the damn two-deep? I hope he learns how to dump it off and get seven yards out of it. Maybe that was how Harris figured in?

[pbmax]

Is Jordy Nelson Fred Biletnikoff?

Per your other post: Good Darly Lamonica reference, too.

Can Rodgers ever figure out the damn two-deep? I hope he learns how to dump it off and get seven yards out of it. Maybe that was how Harris figured in?

Yeah, his inability or refusal to throw to empty holes in zones does't help. McCarthy probably doesn't help by emphasizing looking deep first, to short.

A RB that can catch a pass and either get a 1st or cut the needed distance in half on first and second down would definitely help. Same with screens. Problem is with empty sets and then seeing two deep. Rodgers needs to work with receivers to agree to settle down in empty zone holes and throw it there. Might need Antonio Freeman's help.

I have seen Rodgers bypass those throws before and I am not sure why.

[run pMc]

Agree the numbers on Harris weren't huge, but I think it was all about context and expectations. They pulled the guy from a car dealership, and at that point the fans had suffered through:

No healthy RBs in preseason except Marc Tyler
Cedric Benson's abbreviated career as a Packer
James Starks getting hurt and playing 3 games
Alex Green as leading rusher despite averaging about 2ypc.
TT getting Ryan Grant to come back and play.

Harris was hardly a workhorse, but you could see his legs were fresh, he was strong for his size, and provided a little spark. I think the OL enjoyed blocking for him, even if they weren't very good at it.

They have nothing to lose by bringing Harris into TC and seeing how he looks after the injury. I wouldn't be surprised if they keep 4RB's + Kuhn if they re-sign him. They can play Franklin on ST (or he's a game day inactive), but I wouldn't think they continue the Franklin as KR experiment.

[run pMc]

I have seen Rodgers bypass those throws before and I am not sure why.

I have witnessed and wondered this many times. For a guy who is turnover-averse, you'd think he'd be ok with the occasional checkdown. I'd think getting a RB the ball in space would be a positive matchup in most cases.

[3irty1]

Harris had the vision and decisiveness to work as a zone runner between the tackles which was all it took to stand out in 2012. For me it was his speed that made him exciting. When he'd make his cut it seemed like he just had a gear that none of our other guys have where he would get the next level fast enough to have linebackers lunging. I think as a change of pace back he's pretty much ideal, he's got the HR speed to do big damage with few carries and you don't have to wonder about if he's big enough to hold up for a season. I think he's the only Packers running back who can outrun a secondary.

[Fritz]

I have witnessed and wondered this many times. For a guy who is turnover-averse, you'd think he'd be ok with the occasional checkdown. I'd think getting a RB the ball in space would be a positive matchup in most cases.

Hear, hear. What both of you said. If you go empty backfield, then look for the tight end or a receiver setting down in a zone. How many times, on, say, second and seven, have you seen Rodgers back, looking, looking, and there's Kuhn or the running back du jour in the middle, the nearest player a linebacker seven or eight yards away. Rodgers sees him....and keeps looking downfield, and here comes the defensive end on one side and a defensive tackle up the middle and Rodgers sidesteps them, looks, Kuhn's waving his arms "HEY MUTHAFUGGA!" but Rodgers looks past him, and oh no, he's been sacked! Again!

"Goddamn offensive line!" we all scream.

[Brandon494]

Harris passed the eye test for me but maybe thats just because our other RBs sucked at the time. Its no denying his speed though which is something none of our other RBs have, Harris in the screen game could be dangerous.

[mraynrand]

Can Rodgers ever figure out the damn two-deep? I hope he learns how to dump it off and get seven yards out of it. Maybe that was how Harris figured in?

On a late Packer drive in the opener at SF, needing about 10 for a first down, Rodgers focused in on Jordy working against a deep cover 2. lacy came open about 5 yards downfield and had ten yards open in front of him. Rodgers never saw him, never looked for him. If there's something to work on in the offseason for Stubby and Rodgers, it is the whole check down stratagem. Long to short was the old mantra; they need to come up with something more effective...

[bobblehead]

yeah, i never did understand where all the harris love came from

his big breakout at the end of 2012 was 6 games where he had 257 yards and 4 TD's. just over 40 yards per game

and based on this, people were ready to make him the starter before we drafted lacy. hell, even after we drafted lacy there was talk of harris being the starter

i never saw it, and i don't know what game M3 was watching for him to think that either

I'm with you red. All last year when MM was saying that stuff in TC I was saying it was coach speak for "he is too small and isn't going to make the roster, but he might light a fire under my other guys"

[Fritz]

On a late Packer drive in the opener at SF, needing about 10 for a first down, Rodgers focused in on Jordy working against a deep cover 2. lacy came open about 5 yards downfield and had ten yards open in front of him. Rodgers never saw him, never looked for him. If there's something to work on in the offseason for Stubby and Rodgers, it is the whole check down stratagem. Long to short was the old mantra; they need to come up with something more effective...

Maybe they've been listening to my girlfriend; she says meeting me was going long to short, and she misses long.

[pbmax]

I'm with you red. All last year when MM was saying that stuff in TC I was saying it was coach speak for "he is too small and isn't going to make the roster, but he might light a fire under my other guys"

Possibly. But M3 was singing the Harris tune in the Spring as well and he acknowledged in camp that Harris' injury forced him to junk the work he did to customize the run game for him. I think he was serious.

But I suspect that run game looked more like Sproles running game (in space) than Lacy.