Free Agents and Green Bay

[Smeefers]

Did I say ALL free agents? False assumption on your part.

But, the facts are:
- Woodson said that he did not want to come to GB at all, and admitted that he moped about it his first year in GB
- TT says they really do pursue FAs every year, but are quiet about it.
- No FA of significance signed since Woodson, until Peppers this year.
- Before Woodson, the most significant FA to come was Pickett, who admitted his wife insisted on GB for the family.
- They haven't even signed any marginally significant FAs since the likes of Chiller.
- In 10 seasons they have had three FAs of significance; Pickett, who's wife insisted; Woodson, who had no other option and now Peppers, who got a very good contract and could almost commute from his current home.
- Yet TT who seems as honest as they come, tells us they go after FA's every year.
- Throw in the several occurrences of FAs scheduling GB last, and not even bothering to check it out before signing elsewhere. Why isn't GB ever first, (except for Peppers, apparently; and Pickett way back when) or at least checked out before the committ?

Looks to me like GB is a tough sell, except in the unique situations like with Pickett, Woodson and maybe Peppers.

You implied in your statement that a majority of free agents are hesitant to come to GB. My assumption was completely valid.

as for the facts,

Or TT really does just want to build this team through the draft because that's where the cheapest talent is and it allows him room to sign his home grown talent? As for why people schedule GB last, could it have to do anything at all with the fact that TT doesn't guarantee prices before a visit? It's something like that right? I can't remember exactly.

Anyway, I think it's very hard to draw this line in the sand that you can't get FA's in GB because of the weather and city size. Are you telling me that if we outbid someone on just about any player out there, that they wouldn't come to GB because it's cold and small? Sure, there's a couple guys who'd turn down more money, but not many. I'm willing to bet we don't get big name free agents because TT isn't willing to over pay for them.

Before the talk was "all things considered equal," but if we're going to wade out of the hypothetical and into reality, that's my stand and I'm sticking to it.

[Smeefers]

what does 5, 10 and 15 min mean?

is that 5, 10, and 15 minutes from the center of town or something?

if i'm reading it right, its around 2-3% black and supports what i was saying. so theres just over 4,000 black folks living in the greater green bay area, an area with 200,000 people

yeah,a black person is gonna feel a wee bit out of place

Lol, and I feel it supports what I was saying, that there's a 15% minority population in GB. One of the few times I think we're both right.

[Bretsky]

I think the number of cancelled visits and other non-interest each year speak to the percentages. I think Peppers is more the exception.

If the GM were not Ted, and was willing to bump his price up past his value a bit (or agree to general contract terms before the visit) then you would see more action. But I think the threshold is higher. If Kevin Greene's wife wants to leave GB and he does, it certainly can happen to players.

I agree it's harder to get FA's to come to GB

But I think the bold part is just as much the reason we don't get them

[red]

Lol, and I feel it supports what I was saying, that there's a 15% minority population in GB. One of the few times I think we're both right.

i don't think all minorities are the same, a black guy living around a bunch of asians or mexicans isn't going to feel like he fits right in either

i'm looking at, the more people of your same race in the area, the more comfortable you'll be. asian/ hispanic/indian cultures are gonna be just as different from the culture a black kid is use to as the white culture is to him

[Just Jeff]

It really doesn't matter what color you are, when you have money most of the differences go away. In the blue color circles there is a lot more resentment than amongst the 1%. I happen to have been fortunated to get to know Sherm Lewis a little over the years. He has no idea that he is black.

[Brandon494]

It really doesn't matter what color you are, when you have money most of the differences go away. In the blue color circles there is a lot more resentment than amongst the 1%. I happen to have been fortunated to get to know Sherm Lewis a little over the years. He has no idea that he is black.

He had no idea he is black? You know not all black people are raised in the ghetto, just because someone talks with correct grammar doesn't mean they act "white".


Of course the 1 percentages don't have resentment when they make up 35% of the USA wealth while the bottom 50% of Americans make up 2.5% and then 50-90% of Americans make up 26%. Think about that for a second...the top %1 makes more then the bottom 90% of the US combined.

[Patler]

You implied in your statement that a majority of free agents are hesitant to come to GB. My assumption was completely valid.

Not that it matters, but if you recognized the point of my argument being less than "all" why did reply to me with an unequivocal "No" and draw a distinction to and emphasize "some" free agents? Your reply came across to me like a contrast of your "some" and what you assumed from me to be "all". Oh well...on to the substance of our discussion:

Or TT really does just want to build this team through the draft because that's where the cheapest talent is and it allows him room to sign his home grown talent? As for why people schedule GB last, could it have to do anything at all with the fact that TT doesn't guarantee prices before a visit? It's something like that right? I can't remember exactly.

I think it is likely that TT recognizes the difficulty in getting FAs to GB without overpaying them, and the havoc to the rest of the roster if you have very many that are overpaid. I think he realizes that for the situation in GB, relying on more than a random FA now and then simply won't work. I don't think he would ever be one to dive into it in a big way, but I do think he would use it more than he has if he didn't have to overcome a general reluctance by many to come to GB.

Anyway, I think it's very hard to draw this line in the sand that you can't get FA's in GB because of the weather and city size. Are you telling me that if we outbid someone on just about any player out there, that they wouldn't come to GB because it's cold and small? Sure, there's a couple guys who'd turn down more money, but not many. I'm willing to bet we don't get big name free agents because TT isn't willing to over pay for them.

Before the talk was "all things considered equal," but if we're going to wade out of the hypothetical and into reality, that's my stand and I'm sticking to it.

I don't think anyone is drawing a line in the sand. There will always be some FAs who would willingly come to GB, but I think most will require some convincing, if they indeed have options. When a committed professional player and astute business man like Charles Woodson had an admitted prejudice against GB, I have to believe the feeling is common among FAs. All FAs? Of course not, but I do think the Packers have an uphill battle to get FAs on any kind of consistent basis.

It's sad that it seems a decent offer from anyone else might have kept Woodson from coming to GB. The glow from Reggie White's signing didn't last long, nor will the story relayed by Wodson.

[Just Jeff]

He had no idea he is black? You know not all black people are raised in the ghetto, just because someone talks with correct grammar doesn't mean they act "white".


Of course the 1 percentages don't have resentment when they make up 35% of the USA wealth while the bottom 50% of Americans make up 2.5% and then 50-90% of Americans make up 26%. Think about that for a second...the top %1 makes more then the bottom 90% of the US combined.

Most NFL free agents are in the 1%

[pbmax]

Most NFL free agents are in the 1%

So according to Woodson, the 1% theory of not noticing about differences is not true all the time.

And given who the Packers don't get visits from, I think this holds true more often than a player like Peppers signs.

[mraynrand]

Think about that for a second...the top %1 makes more then the bottom 90% of the US combined.

So what? The top 1% develop and provide most of the stuff the lower 90% want/need/benefit from and can't make themselves - like iPhones, cars, planes, computers, fuel, loans, entitlements, entertainment, etc. etc. They get rich making all the stuff people love. thank you, I say.

[esoxx]

He had no idea he is black? You know not all black people are raised in the ghetto, just because someone talks with correct grammar doesn't mean they act "white".


Of course the 1 percentages don't have resentment when they make up 35% of the USA wealth while the bottom 50% of Americans make up 2.5% and then 50-90% of Americans make up 26%. Think about that for a second...the top %1 makes more then the bottom 90% of the US combined.

Take it to FYI

[esoxx]

I think we're all missing a very simple point here. Green Bay is still in play if you have a QB. We've been blessed with great QB play the last 22 years.

Huge drawing card that you can WIN here (and get paid handsomely of course). Peppers isn't signing with MN, all things being equal, he wants to win meaning SB.

As soon as the dynamic changes where we don't have one of the best QB's in the league, all bets are off.

[pbmax]

I think we're all missing a very simple point here. Green Bay is still in play if you have a QB. We've been blessed with great QB play the last 22 years.

Huge drawing card that you can WIN here (and get paid handsomely of course). Peppers isn't signing with MN, all things being equal, he wants to win meaning SB.

As soon as the dynamic changes where we don't have one of the best QB's in the league, all bets are off.

Agree. A good GB team with an All Pro QB is still a better draw than Jacksonville on a lot of levels (though the income tax issue helps Jax). But the city itself will break a lot of ties, sometimes to the team's detriment.

[Rutnstrut]

I don't buy the not wanting to come to GB excuse. Ii's the GM's damn job to make them want to come to GB. Maybe one reason TT prefers to build through the draft, is because he lacks the people skills to schmooze these guys that supposedly don't want to go there. Money can be had anywhere by these guys, the opportunity to win not so much. If given the choice of money and the chance to win in GB I think most would tolerate the lack of night life for a while.

[Patler]

I have had business relationships with pro athletes for 25 years. It really is a job to them. They make their decisions on where to go for the same reasons we do, some to the highest bidder, some because they hit it off with the boss, some because it is a place they want to live and raise their families and the job will be OK. "winning" is a factor for some, but not huge for a lot of the younger guys. They figure the team will build with them.

Winning the championship of their sport becomes a big factor for some of the old guys who haven't won one. They are financially set and know they have only a few years left. Some will look for the spot where they can contribute to a championship. For most of the young guys, not so much.