TWO TRADE PARTNERS

[Bretsky]

Denver apparently really trying to deal up to get Mosley or Shazier

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000347632/article/denver-broncos-have-talked-trading-up-in-first-round

NFL Network and now the article points out SF also looking to trade up.

INTERESTING SCENARIO

What if Denver called Ted with Shazier or Mosley on the Board and offered their 2nd and 4th....or even 3rd...to move up ten slots

YA or NA ???????????

[red]

ted doesn't usually get maximum value when he trades down, at least going by the old trade charts that most say are out of date

was it last year, or two years ago, where ted traded down in the middle rounds. according to the trade charts, he got fleeced. then about a couple picks later, another team traded down to a team that didn't have to move up as far as our trade partner did. yet they got a lot more picks/trade value compared to what we did.

if you look at the charts at all, ted usually leaves points on the table in order to move down

soin your scenario, i think the other teams second rounder is off the table. for either the broncos or seachickens, i'd say ted could get their 1st round (pick 31 or 32) and their third. you might also get a 4th

[Just Jeff]

ebus plubsis et tu. In Ted we trust

[KYPack]

We went thru this last year during the draft. People say the old charts are outmoded because, well, they are. The charts, point values, etc are really just window dressing. When you trade up or down, you are making a different bet. You are gambling that your organization and talent evaluation has solid information that goes way beyond the "points". If you have identified player A as an all-pro and franchise player, you will give up points to get in position to grab him.

The solid organizations make better decisions that the weak ones. NE, Pitt, GB and other teams with good scouting and drafting organizations often make trades that have their team appear to get hosed by the charts and point values. The Cleveland and Jax's of the world tend to make shit draft deals because they don't know what the hell they are doing.

The teams that have expertise always "leave points on the board". They do so to make the trade attractive to the trading partner. The dumb teams crow that they won the deal based on the value charts. Then, they go out and make stupid choices, just like they always have.

Nobody now brags how many points Cleveland fleeced from ATL in the Julio Jones deal. They just talk about how Cleveland blew their shot at Julio Jones (not that he would have helped the Brownies that much).

[KYPack]

Oh fuck, I did it, too.

[denverYooper]

We went thru this last year during the draft. People say the old charts are outmoded because, well, they are. The charts, point values, etc are really just window dressing. When you trade up or down, you are making a different bet. You are gambling that your organization and talent evaluation has solid information that goes way beyond the "points". If you have identified player A as an all-pro and franchise player, you will give up points to get in position to grab him.

The solid organizations make better decisions that the weak ones. NE, Pitt, GB and other teams with good scouting and drafting organizations often make trades that have their team appear to get hosed by the charts and point values. The Cleveland and Jax's of the world tend to make shit draft deals because they don't know what the hell they are doing.

The teams that have expertise always "leave points on the board". They do so to make the trade attractive to the trading partner. The dumb teams crow that they won the deal based on the value charts. Then, they go out and make stupid choices, just like they always have.

Nobody now brags how many points Cleveland fleeced from ATL in the Julio Jones deal. They just talk about how Cleveland blew their shot at Julio Jones (not that he would have helped the Brownies that much).

Nice one Colonel.

[MadScientist]

If Denver offers their 1 & 2 or possibly their 1 & 3, and Shazier is off the board, go for the trade. I don't think Mosley is a good pick because of injuries.

[smuggler]

And yet, last season, when they actually experienced injuries for the first time in half a decade, the Falcons had no depth from trading away all those picks to move up and get Jones and were scuttled in 2013.

Not that I disagree with your point in general, just that I think you picked a bad example to support it.

The good example is... WOW, SF fleeced Green Bay to move up 6 picks at the end of the 2nd round (and picked Vance McDonald)!!!! .... And then Green Bay selected Eddie Lacy. Which team really got fleeced?

[wist43]

We went thru this last year during the draft. People say the old charts are outmoded because, well, they are. The charts, point values, etc are really just window dressing. When you trade up or down, you are making a different bet. You are gambling that your organization and talent evaluation has solid information that goes way beyond the "points". If you have identified player A as an all-pro and franchise player, you will give up points to get in position to grab him.

The solid organizations make better decisions that the weak ones. NE, Pitt, GB and other teams with good scouting and drafting organizations often make trades that have their team appear to get hosed by the charts and point values. The Cleveland and Jax's of the world tend to make shit draft deals because they don't know what the hell they are doing.

The teams that have expertise always "leave points on the board". They do so to make the trade attractive to the trading partner. The dumb teams crow that they won the deal based on the value charts. Then, they go out and make stupid choices, just like they always have.

Nobody now brags how many points Cleveland fleeced from ATL in the Julio Jones deal. They just talk about how Cleveland blew their shot at Julio Jones (not that he would have helped the Brownies that much).

Ted doesn't always get it right... as I brought up the 2007 draft - when Cleveland was asking us to trade up.

Cleveland wanted to trade up to take Brady Quinn - who ended up being a bust, but that isn't the point.

Cleveland was offering us their 2nd round pick #36, and their next years #1. Ted spit on it, and drafted Justin Harrell instead.

Cleveland eventually made the same trade with Dallas. They took Quinn at #22, and Dallas was able to trade back up to #26 and took DE Anthony Spencer.

To trade back up from #36 to #26, Dallas gave up 3rd and 5th. So Dallas ended up trading back 4 spots, and gve up a 3rd and 5th, to get a 1st the following year - which ended up being pick #22 RB Felix Jones.

In that 2008 draft, TT traded back out of the 1st round, and took in the 2nd round Jordy Nelson, QB Brian Brohm, and CB Patrick Lee.

So out of 2 1st round picks, and 2 2nd round picks, TT got 1 player - Jordy Nelson.

Go back and look at the 2011 draft?? Out of 10 players drafted, only 2 are still with the team - Randall Cobb and Devon House... there's no way to look at that draft other than a complete disaster.

TT has had his share of completely crap drafts... his philosophy of drafting 85 guys every year though kind of saves him. The fact that he's had 2 great QB's is the only other thing that keeps him in a job though - and to his credit, he did draft Rodgers.

[KYPack]

And yet, last season, when they actually experienced injuries for the first time in half a decade, the Falcons had no depth from trading away all those picks to move up and get Jones and were scuttled in 2013.

Not that I disagree with your point in general, just that I think you picked a bad example to support it.

The good example is... WOW, SF fleeced Green Bay to move up 6 picks at the end of the 2nd round (and picked Vance McDonald)!!!! .... And then Green Bay selected Eddie Lacy. Which team really got fleeced?

Yeah, the Jones trade is a somewhat weak example. I didn't try to google up a great example, I just wanted a "Non-Packer" example. Actually, the Jones trade somewhat hurt both teams. Cleveland basically pissed away their picks (Brandon Weedon, Greg Little, guys that have been cut, Trent Richardson) and only got DL Phil Taylor. Although, they could still salvage the whole deal by cashing in with Indy's pick they got for Richardson.

ATL hurt their depth and probably put way too many eggs in Jones basket, so to speak.

The Clay Mathews deal, trading 3 picks to move up and snag Clay and the Eddy lacy deal are much better examples of TT leaving trade chart points on the table in order to scoop up a superior players.

[mraynrand]

Nobody now brags how many points Cleveland fleeced from ATL in the Julio Jones deal. They just talk about how Cleveland blew their shot at Julio Jones (not that he would have helped the Brownies that much).

Or they complain how Cleveland blew all those points on hookers and gambling.

Seriously, I am predicting another night of Cleveland drafting an 'impact player' (WR/RB/OT) and a QB (God knows who, probably Manzier), spurring Hairdo to say "The future is now in Cleveland" just like he did with Couch/Johnson, Winslow/McCown, Edwards/Frye, Thomas/Quinn, Richardson/Joss Whedon. Yeah, that worked out well.

[run pMc]

Go back and look at the 2011 draft?? Out of 10 players drafted, only 2 are still with the team - Randall Cobb and Devon House... there's no way to look at that draft other than a complete disaster.

TT has had his share of completely crap drafts... his philosophy of drafting 85 guys every year though kind of saves him. The fact that he's had 2 great QB's is the only other thing that keeps him in a job though - and to his credit, he did draft Rodgers.

I think the average career for an NFL player is something like 3 years, so if most of his 2011 draft is out of football that's not too far off the mark. I'd mention Sherrod and Ryan Taylor are still with the team as well. Alex Green and D.J.Williams played on other teams last year. It wasn't a great draft, but it wasn't a total disaster.

Wasn't it Ron Wolf who said you need to find 3 or 4 players per draft? If you have 85 picks I'd think you'd have a better chance at finding them.
Important year for GB. If they draft well and injuries regress to the mean they are a legit SB contender.

[run pMc]

Or they complain how Cleveland blew all those points on hookers and gambling.

Seriously, I am predicting another night of Cleveland drafting an 'impact player' (WR/RB/OT) and a QB (God knows who, probably Manzier), spurring Hairdo to say "The future is now in Cleveland" just like he did with Couch/Johnson, Winslow/McCown, Edwards/Frye, Thomas/Quinn, Richardson/Joss Whedon. Yeah, that worked out well.

Joss Whedon LOL

[KYPack]

Ted doesn't always get it right... as I brought up the 2007 draft - when Cleveland was asking us to trade up.

Cleveland wanted to trade up to take Brady Quinn - who ended up being a bust, but that isn't the point.

Cleveland was offering us their 2nd round pick #36, and their next years #1. Ted spit on it, and drafted Justin Harrell instead.

Cleveland eventually made the same trade with Dallas. They took Quinn at #22, and Dallas was able to trade back up to #26 and took DE Anthony Spencer.

To trade back up from #36 to #26, Dallas gave up 3rd and 5th. So Dallas ended up trading back 4 spots, and gve up a 3rd and 5th, to get a 1st the following year - which ended up being pick #22 RB Felix Jones.

In that 2008 draft, TT traded back out of the 1st round, and took in the 2nd round Jordy Nelson, QB Brian Brohm, and CB Patrick Lee.

So out of 2 1st round picks, and 2 2nd round picks, TT got 1 player - Jordy Nelson.

Go back and look at the 2011 draft?? Out of 10 players drafted, only 2 are still with the team - Randall Cobb and Devon House... there's no way to look at that draft other than a complete disaster.

TT has had his share of completely crap drafts... his philosophy of drafting 85 guys every year though kind of saves him. The fact that he's had 2 great QB's is the only other thing that keeps him in a job though - and to his credit, he did draft Rodgers.

Ryan Taylor and (Sweet Jesus, dare I say it?) Derrick Sherrod are still on the roster. House was a comp pick, to boot (with Richard Sherman still on the board).

[KYPack]

Denver apparently really trying to deal up to get Mosley or Shazier

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000347632/article/denver-broncos-have-talked-trading-up-in-first-round

NFL Network and now the article points out SF also looking to trade up.

INTERESTING SCENARIO

What if Denver called Ted with Shazier or Mosley on the Board and offered their 2nd and 4th....or even 3rd...to move up ten slots

YA or NA ???????????

Sorry, B-man.

I did a little "Tank style" thread jack on ya.

I'd say NA, but gazing back on thgei thread, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about.