Official Non NFC North NFL News 2014 (Unofficial Johnny Manziel)

[pbmax]

I don't get how the video changed anything. He hit her, we've known that for a while. I'm not trying to be obtuse, but how does a video showing us what we already knew happened, and he admitted to, change anything? Was it any more violent, or reveal anything we didn't already know?

Maybe the NFL is reacting to the backlash from the fans and used it as an excuse to revisit the punishment?

There is hypocrisy at work, but the video removes any doubt one could conjure about what happened on the elevator. It also brings in nearly every demographic to the event because now the worst of the confrontation can be shown on TV rather than suspected or inferred.

But Florio's argument that I was interested in, was that the this video was clearly available at the time of the incident and the NFL and the Ravens did nothing to secure it. Or they are now lying and the suspension is because of publicity, not a closely held commitment to personal conduct.

Either way, they are incompetent and opportunistic.

And that doesn't even get to the issue of the police handling of this matter.

[Rastak]

There is hypocrisy at work, but the video removes any doubt one could conjure about what happened on the elevator. It also brings in nearly every demographic to the event because now the worst of the confrontation can be shown on TV rather than suspected or inferred.

But Florio's argument that I was interested in, was that the this video was clearly available at the time of the incident and the NFL and the Ravens did nothing to secure it. Or they are now lying and the suspension is because of publicity, not a closely held commitment to personal conduct.

Either way, they are incompetent and opportunistic.

And that doesn't even get to the issue of the police handling of this matter.

If I understand your position PB I completely agree.

This was a criminal investigation. Law enforcement obviously obtained the tapes. As part of due process the defense attorney would have gotten the tapes. TMZ got a cell phone recording of the ass end of one of the tapes, not the original if I recall.

My points as follows....

1) Why would law enforcement share video with a private company during a criminal investigation....they wouldn't.
2) Could the NFL force the defense attorney to cough up the video during a criminal investigation through intimidation? I don't know, but I'd fight that tooth and nail under the simple concept of this is a criminal investigation, anything you get will be when this is resolved.
3) If the video was so easily available why didn't TMZ have the whole tape as surely they would have killed for that on their site. Answer: They had to settle for some security gaurds leaked video of the video.
4) Why not ask the casino for the video? Why in the fuck would they be anxious to hand that out to a private company. It makes their casino look bad and wouldn't law enforcement ask them to keep this under wraps during the investigation? If all you had to do was ask wouldn't TMZ have had that plastered all over immediately after asking the second they realized who did what?

[pbmax]

1. The NFL has on its security roster former FBI, DEA and Homeland Security officials. For years the League has hired ex-FBI to run its security business. They regularly get to look at police reports. By and large, police reports are made public shortly after they are submitted. And this situation is no different. Even the League acknowledges they asked for everything the State Police had but are claiming that the elevator interior video was not turned over. By inference, that means they had all the other material. *

2. Conversation the League has with Rice's attorney/agent: You know, this would go much faster if we had access to ALL the video. Otherwise Ray could be suspended indefinitely until we get to the bottom of this. Can they force him? Nope. But a few million dollars is a lot of leverage.

3. TMZ may not have had the video but here is a list of people who got reports about the content of the video early this summer which, in this case, turned out to be accurate: Chris Mortenson, Peter King, Jane McManus (ESPN), and Adam Schefter. These reports were sourced to the League. The AP today got a longer and higher quality copy of the tapes. A significant number of people, including some eyewitnesses to the argument and aftermath, were privy to details.

4. I don't know why they didn't ask the casino. TMZ has a guy saying the NFL did send people to view it which is the simplest explanation for all subsequent events, but that report lacks detail. I can see the NFL wanting to stick to official sources.

If they want to stick to official sources, then my guess is that they were satisfied someone they trusted got a look at it and the defense attorney, Rice and Palmer agreed on the basic events. If this is indeed the case, then the NFL is incompetent because multiple copies existed of the video, they weren't in control of more copies being made, and they were basing their decision in part on 2nd hand viewing.

They miscalculated that the video was partially exculpatory or, at worst, showed both parties at fault, which was the message the Defense Attorney was sending. That is leaving a HUGE loose end if you are investigating this.


* The League has said in a statement they knew the video existed in the hands of the NJ State Police, which has been denied by the NJ State Police because they cover the only the space devoted to gambling for Atlantic City casinos. The Atlantic City Police would cover the rest of the building's interior.

[Rastak]

1. The NFL has on its security roster former FBI, DEA and Homeland Security officials. For years the League has hired ex-FBI to run its security business. They regularly get to look at police reports. By and large, police reports are made public shortly after they are submitted. And this situation is no different. Even the League acknowledges they asked for everything the State Police had but are claiming that the elevator interior video was not turned over. By inference, that means they had all the other material. *

2. Conversation the League has with Rice's attorney/agent: You know, this would go much faster if we had access to ALL the video. Otherwise Ray could be suspended indefinitely until we get to the bottom of this. Can they force him? Nope. But a few million dollars is a lot of leverage.

3. TMZ may not have had the video but here is a list of people who got reports about the content of the video early this summer which, in this case, turned out to be accurate: Chris Mortenson, Peter King, Jane McManus (ESPN), and Adam Schefter. These reports were sourced to the League. The AP today got a longer and higher quality copy of the tapes. A significant number of people, including some eyewitnesses to the argument and aftermath, were privy to details.

4. I don't know why they didn't ask the casino. TMZ has a guy saying the NFL did send people to view it which is the simplest explanation for all subsequent events, but that report lacks detail. I can see the NFL wanting to stick to official sources.

If they want to stick to official sources, then my guess is that they were satisfied someone they trusted got a look at it and the defense attorney, Rice and Palmer agreed on the basic events. If this is indeed the case, then the NFL is incompetent because multiple copies existed of the video, they weren't in control of more copies being made, and they were basing their decision in part on 2nd hand viewing.

They miscalculated that the video was partially exculpatory or, at worst, showed both parties at fault, which was the message the Defense Attorney was sending. That is leaving a HUGE loose end if you are investigating this.


* The League has said in a statement they knew the video existed in the hands of the NJ State Police, which has been denied by the NJ State Police because they cover the only the space devoted to gambling for Atlantic City casinos. The Atlantic City Police would cover the rest of the building's interior.

I agree that was a huge loose end. I think maybe waiting until the ;egal process was over would have been the route to go...(maybe they did, I don't have the timeline in front of me). Once the DA cut a deal there would have been no reason for the defense attorney to withhold it any longer. Then he could have applied all the screws to get that tape and know one way or another.

One other thing, the first leaked video of the tape was public so the NFL didn;t need law ebforcement to turn it over. Thus, I'm not sure what they got from the police.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Much speculation, accusations, etc, I favor Occam's razor, everybody involved said or did things to maximize profit or minimize losses/careers.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Could this be the end of the Goodell era?

I don't buy at all that the League didn't know about the video until the day TMZ showed it. They hoped that they could skate by with some nominal punishment and that the public would simply forget about it like most other news stories. It's biting them in the ass now.

[Guiness]

Could this be the end of the Goodell era?

I don't buy at all that the League didn't know about the video until the day TMZ showed it. They hoped that they could skate by with some nominal punishment and that the public would simply forget about it like most other news stories. It's biting them in the ass now.

The end of the Goodell era? A simple event like this, that in the long run will cost the league no money? After Goodell has presided over an era of unprecedented profits and been part of a negotiation with the players that resulted in a CBA heavily in favour of the owners?

Not a chance in hell.

[smuggler]

Gotta agree with Guiness on this one. One goof won't cost him his job.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's being speculated on that's for sure. Never underestimate the power of the media though.

[pbmax]

Could this be the end of the Goodell era?

I don't buy at all that the League didn't know about the video until the day TMZ showed it. They hoped that they could skate by with some nominal punishment and that the public would simply forget about it like most other news stories. It's biting them in the ass now.

He's not going anywhere, I don't think.

They also aren't claiming they didn't know about the video. They are claiming they didn't see it.

[KYPack]

Goodell stays.

That said, the NFL needs to improve it's PR. A Pete Rozelle led NFL would've suspended Ray Rice for a year (indefinitely) so fast it wudda made your head spin.

Not for the morality of the issue, for the possible exposure to negative PR the incident might generate.

Goodell just isn't wired that way and cleans up his issues on the back side of 'em. He needs to get out that mode and get ahead of the problems before they mushroom on him like this thing did.

Dollar wise, the guy is incredible and that's all the owners care about.

[Guiness]

Not that the media isn't trying like hell to make a story where there is none. Couple of articles about it on PFT's front page. Sportsline is carrying something about it. Dan Patrick thinks he should be suspended to 'show accountability'.

Am I missing something? What did he do wrong, except bobbling this a bit but rectifying it before it mattered? If Rice had served the 2 game suspension, come back and played a few, then been re-suspended, that would've been different, but it was changed before any of that happened. 2 weeks before that happened.

[smuggler]

rodger goodell is about as culpable for any of this as jason whitlock or the governor of new jersey. People are just out for blood. The irony is astounding.

[Striker]

I think a lot of it is just the general discontent anyone not the owners has towards Goodell. Despite the profits, he's probably one of the more unpopular league commissioners in recent history.

[pbmax]

Not that the media isn't trying like hell to make a story where there is none. Couple of articles about it on PFT's front page. Sportsline is carrying something about it. Dan Patrick thinks he should be suspended to 'show accountability'.

Am I missing something? What did he do wrong, except bobbling this a bit but rectifying it before it mattered? If Rice had served the 2 game suspension, come back and played a few, then been re-suspended, that would've been different, but it was changed before any of that happened. 2 weeks before that happened.

rodger goodell is about as culpable for any of this as jason whitlock or the governor of new jersey. People are just out for blood. The irony is astounding.

I am not in the fire Roger chorus (not for this anyway) however, he does have some blame in this area if not this incident.

He has constructed a system of procedures and policies with no meaningful checks and balances when it comes to Player Conduct. It is inconsistent and a virtual closed loop. Its produces neither certainty nor any degree of trust that it was complete. Its seems mostly arbitrary. Even of-field conduct gets reviewed by arbitrators chosen jointly by the League and the Players. Player Conduct is reviewed by the prosecuting attorney, who is also the judge.

Take for instance, the current stance on McDonald for the 49ers. They are waiting for the court case. But in other circumstances, he has acted prior (see Aldon Smith or Rothliesberger). Does anyone know how that decision is made? It doesn't seem consistent from case to case.

Now in the Rice situation, we know the NFL is willing to act when it is not in possession of all available information. But its investigation not only was incomplete, it had ended. And there has been no explanation how such an oversight occurred except that they stopped asking.

He has made himself a one man gang on this issue, and is mucking it up. That is not effective administration.