Help Me Understand...The New Defensive Line

[woodbuck27]

So dies it mean only the NT will most often by DT'd and must not penetrate? Or can Raji split a DT, or does it depend?

And has anyone any insight on this Mike Pennel from Colorado State Tech Truck Dtiving/Bible College? He seems nose tackle size.

And thanks for the help. All of youse guys.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mike-pennel?id=2543574

Mike Pennel ...DT Colorado State-Pueblo

Grade 5.0

5.23 SEC; 23 REPS (Bench); 28.5 INCH Vert.; 102.0 INCH Broad Jump;

7.94 SEC 3-Cone Drill and 4.84 SEC. Shuttle

He may have some personality issues?

Weaknesses:

** Gets hung up on blocks too easily and can't split the double team.

Technique:

**Plays flat-footed. Not initially quick or sudden to shoot gaps or make plays behind the line of scrimmage.

** Plays with limited knee bend and tends to stand tall. Could stand to do a better job protecting his legs.

Concentration and Discipline:

** Did not dominate vs. lesser competition. Has been disciplined for not following rules and must prove committed.

Bottom Line:

A very large man or run-stuffing space-occupier with the large size to plug the middle or play on the outside *** in a traditional 3-4 front. ***

*** NOTE woodbuck27 ***:

See Dom Capers and a traditional 3-4 Defensive Front seven.

His strength may be as an NFL DT/NT >>> defending the run on first and second downs.

[woodbuck27]

Help me understand.... how our defense is defensible?

Memo: Mike McCarthy.

[woodbuck27]

Maybe Ted is not drafting players typical to the system DOM wants to run; just a thought

TT, MM and D.C. Dom Capers must ** focus on being on the same page in terms of dramatically improving the Packers "D". The way the Packers played defense last season was alarming.

The Green bay Packers cannot compete with the elite NFL teams with an NFL bottom third ranked Defense.

** Focus:

That has to be based on "a supply on demand" basis.

A) After communication (TT>><<MM>><<Dom Capers>><<TT) based on a shared philosophy on the Packers Defense:

It's ...

B) TT's job to get the needed talent...not simply bodies (body types...look the part's).

then...

C) It's MM and Dom's and the entire Green Bay Packers coaching staffs job focus to mold that talent into a strong cohesive and deep DEFENSE.

GO PACK GO !

[Fritz]

I wonder if Dom's going to have to adjust how he sets up and calls a defense, given that his talent doesn't fit what he's used to.

I still find it a bit unsettling that just one year after the talk about drafting more "traditional" 3-4 DE's (Datone Jones), that talk has disappeared and we're back to the hybrid guys. Is there a lack of direction? Or are the differences physically so slight (6-4 and 285 versus 6-2 and 305) that it doesn't really matter?

Surely, if Ted is not drafting what Dom would like, they've all discussed this. I doubt that a venerable DC like Capers would just shrug and keep going. Surely they've talked this all out. Right...?

One problem I wonder about: however the above is answered, let's say they go with this more one-gap, penetrating style. Are they screwed, then, when a couple guys shoot the gap, and Kaepernick then takes off down the field?

Is this the opposite approach to last year? Stay in your lanes, so what if you don't really pressure him, just don't let him run, etc.

I'm so confused about this defense now. It all seems to have started this year when MM said he wanted to run all the packages any time, so now every player seems to have to play multiple positions.

[Joemailman]

I wonder if Dom's going to have to adjust how he sets up and calls a defense, given that his talent doesn't fit what he's used to.

I still find it a bit unsettling that just one year after the talk about drafting more "traditional" 3-4 DE's (Datone Jones), that talk has disappeared and we're back to the hybrid guys. Is there a lack of direction? Or are the differences physically so slight (6-4 and 285 versus 6-2 and 305) that it doesn't really matter?

When Jones was drafted, he was seen as a guy who could line up inside in nickel, or play DE in base. However, a lot of the reports on him suggested that he had the frame to put on weight. I think 285 is a little light to be playing base DE, but he might be able to do it if he can get closer to 300. It will be interesting to see what he looks like when he shows up for training camp.

I'm so confused about this defense now. It all seems to have started this year when MM said he wanted to run all the packages any time, so now every player seems to have to play multiple positions.

MM has had it with injuries hampering the defense. I think last year the Packers took a lot out of their defense because of injuries. The idea now is that if you lose a certain player to injury, you don't have to adjust the defense because you have someone else ready yo assume that role. On offense, the Packers expect all of their WR's to learn all of the different WR positions (Wideout, slot receiver, etc. ). Therefore, the Packers don't have to reduce their playbook if a certain receiver is out. I think MM wants the defense to be able to do the same thing.

[red]

Picture a passing down with Daniels at NT, D. Jones and Neal at DE, Matthews and Peppers at OLB, Bradford and Hawk at ILB. Do we have a pass rush or what?

i don't see much of a pass rush there

daniels, jones and neal are all average at best pass rushers. they will be single blocked by the center and guards without much problem. leaving both tackles, a RB/FB and maybe a TE to pick up the OLB's

hawk is not a pass rusher, and who knows about bradford, but we are horrible using the up the middle blitz

unless you get some fatties in there that can command a double team, you're only real pass rushers (the OLBs) are gonna be taking on multiple blockers on every snap

[Brandon494]

i don't see much of a pass rush there

daniels, jones and neal are all average at best pass rushers. they will be single blocked by the center and guards without much problem. leaving both tackles, a RB/FB and maybe a TE to pick up the OLB's

hawk is not a pass rusher, and who knows about bradford, but we are horrible using the up the middle blitz

unless you get some fatties in there that can command a double team, you're only real pass rushers (the OLBs) are gonna be taking on multiple blockers on every snap

He just listed our best pass rushers...

[Striker]

*edit*

[Striker]

i don't see much of a pass rush there

daniels, jones and neal are all average at best pass rushers. they will be single blocked by the center and guards without much problem. leaving both tackles, a RB/FB and maybe a TE to pick up the OLB's

hawk is not a pass rusher, and who knows about bradford, but we are horrible using the up the middle blitz

unless you get some fatties in there that can command a double team, you're only real pass rushers (the OLBs) are gonna be taking on multiple blockers on every snap

I'd think Raji would be in at NT on passing downs. Also, at the very least, Daniels is above average based on what he flashed last year. He was seeing quite a few double teams with Matthews out and Raji ineffective.

In passing downs they could also throw out a front of Peppers/Daniels/Raji/Neal (or Jones/Perry) with Matthews/Perry as LBs and 5 DBs.

[texaspackerbacker]

i don't see much of a pass rush there

daniels, jones and neal are all average at best pass rushers. they will be single blocked by the center and guards without much problem. leaving both tackles, a RB/FB and maybe a TE to pick up the OLB's

hawk is not a pass rusher, and who knows about bradford, but we are horrible using the up the middle blitz

unless you get some fatties in there that can command a double team, you're only real pass rushers (the OLBs) are gonna be taking on multiple blockers on every snap

Those fat lumps we used last season - Pickett and Raji - certainly didn't command double teams. On any kind of an outside run or rollout pass play, they didn't even need single blocking.

I strongly disagree that Daniels and Datone Jones are "average at best". Daniels did the job even when the other two D-Linemen were total nothings. Datone, when he was healthy, showed some ability too. Neal, yeah average pretty much describes him, but as our third best out of three, that ain't bad. What I probably should have said was Peppers and Datone at DE, Daniels at NT, and Perry along with Matthews at OLB. As for Hawk, somebody has to drop back in coverage. And Bradford has the reputation as a strong pass rusher coming in. Hopefully they move him inside, and he performs like Desmond Bishop before his injury.

[pbmax]

He just listed our best pass rushers...

Daniels and a healthy Neal are better than average. Jones looked that way too until he hurt his foot or ankle.

APRH, its not a bad group. You are right, there is not a dominating presence, but that is what Matthews/Peppers and hopefully Perry will do.

[woodbuck27]

Those fat lumps we used last season - Pickett and Raji - certainly didn't command double teams. On any kind of an outside run or rollout pass play, they didn't even need single blocking.

I strongly disagree that Daniels and Datone Jones are "average at best". Daniels did the job even when the other two D-Linemen were total nothings. Datone, when he was healthy, showed some ability too. Neal, yeah average pretty much describes him, but as our third best out of three, that ain't bad. What I probably should have said was Peppers and Datone at DE, Daniels at NT, and Perry along with Matthews at OLB. As for Hawk, somebody has to drop back in coverage. And Bradford has the reputation as a strong pass rusher coming in. Hopefully they move him inside, and he performs like Desmond Bishop before his injury.

Yes on BJ Raji.; In him it's like believing in miracles. He was constantly defeated in single coverage. He played like a weak sister.

Is Mike Daniels big enough to stand up at NT? I see him at LDE in a 3-4 Base.

The rest of your thoughts look as legit possibilities to me.

[Fritz]

Yes on BJ Raji.; In him it's like believing in miracles. He was constantly defeated in single coverage. He played like a weak sister.

Is Mike Daniels big enough to stand up at NT? I see him at LDE in a 3-4 Base.

The rest of your thoughts look as legit possibilities to me.

C'mon, Woody - you remember the lyrics!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

Yes on BJ Raji.; In him it's like believing in miracles. He was constantly defeated in single coverage. He played like a weak sister.

Is Mike Daniels big enough to stand up at NT? I see him at LDE in a 3-4 Base.

The rest of your thoughts look as legit possibilities to me.

I only meant Daniels as NT in passing situations. In the base, yeah, he and Datone and Worthy and maybe Boyd rotating at DE. I'm resigned to the fact that we're stuck with Raji there in the base for another year anyway. Hopefully he has just enough mobility and penetration to contribute a little bit.

[woodbuck27]

I only meant Daniels as NT in passing situations. In the base, yeah, he and Datone and Worthy and maybe Boyd rotating at DE. I'm resigned to the fact that we're stuck with Raji there in the base for another year anyway. Hopefully he has just enough mobility and penetration to contribute a little bit.

OK.... got it.

Thanks.