Soft & behind the times

[wist43]

The "deception" included the Seattle center blocking downfield on the Lockette pass. The block downfield, which is a universal and immediate "run read," was never penalized: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-am/0ap...ouchdown-legal

In days gone by, that penalty would have been called by the umpire when he was situated in the middle of the field at LB depth... he was responsible for holding and illegal linemen downfield, and he was right in the thick of it. He could see what was happening very well.

Now the umpire is in the offensive backfield... can't see that penalty as easily, if at all.

I was not a fan of moving the umpire out of the middle like that... really takes away from the game in IMO.

[pbmax]

Over in the thread I started on defense, I broke down the alignments, but I didn't count LB's... was in a hurry, and just assumed that the players lurking behind the line were 2 LB's and the rest DB's. The "line" itself was comprised of only 2 down linemen, so without counting LB's and identifying who was actually on the field, the alignment looked like a 2-4.

So if that is the case, dunderdummy was running a 2-5 some of the time - predictably, they got completely run over. Our LB's suck, so why bend over backward to ensure that they are on the field 24/7?? The 2-5 was completely ineffetive when Fritz Shurmer introduced back in the 80's - it's still ineffective, and has no place in the NFL as a base.

Capers gameplan was a joke, and only 4 DL active was a joke... this defensive coaching staff has no idea what it is doing, and TT is okay apparently okay with that.

But if Neal or Perry and Peppers at the DEs in that alignment, its not size causing the problem. That is a good sized four man line with some pass rush. Your lightest guy is edge rushing Perry at 270. 3 tech tackle is 285, NT is 300+ and Peppers is 280.

The only question is 2 or 3 point stance. I think this may still point to terrible run fits by the entire 7 man front.

[wist43]

But if Neal or Perry and Peppers at the DEs in that alignment, its not size causing the problem. That is a good sized four man line with some pass rush. Your lightest guy is edge rushing Perry at 270. 3 tech tackle is 285, NT is 300+ and Peppers is 280.

The only question is 2 or 3 point stance. I think this may still point to terrible run fits by the entire 7 man front.

Playing in a 2 or 3 point stance matters - it matters a lot. With your hand in the dirt, you are in a sprinters stance and ready to fire out hard and low; if it is a run, you have leverage and power. Standing up, you are fractionally slower to react off of the snap (unless you anticipate it very well), and if it is a run, you are standing taller when you engage the OL, thereby surrendering leverage.

Dunderdummy should just quit playing gimmicks up front and go to a 4-3 full time now... we don't have the players to run a 3-4; and we don't have the LB's to run a 2-5; and of course the 2-4 has been proven over and over again to be a complete disaster.

I don't know how anyone can look at what Capers is, and has been doing, and conclude that he is even remotely capable of continuing to run an NFL defense - the guy needs to be fired immediately, and let the chips fall where they may for the rest of the season.

The season is already wasted - given that what they changed in the offseason was for the worse, so go ahead and cut your losses now, get rid of the cancer, salvage what you can of this season, and look to rebuild/retool for '15.

Note: I think we could reconnoiter on defense this year - but that simply isn't going to happen as along as dunderdummy is our DC. I don't see how TT/MM have any choice but to fire Capers now... of course they won't.

Gonna be a long season watching another dunderdummy coached defense.

[Iron Mike]

How about Grossberger from "Stir Crazy"

I recently figured out that I wrestled that guy in college. But nobody would believe such a story.

He was Dutch, weighed 420 lbs at time, was an internationally famous opera star, had a genius IQ and wrestled for M.I.T.
He lost some weight and made the Olympic team as an alternate.

[wist43]

How about Grossberger from "Stir Crazy"

I recently figured out that I wrestled that guy in college. But nobody would believe such a story.

He was Dutch, weighed 420 lbs at time, was an internationally famous opera star, had a genius IQ and wrestled for M.I.T.
He lost some weight and made the Olympic team as an alternate.

Man, that guy could sing... my favorite scene from Stir Crazy.

Guy was truly amazing... too bad he died so young

[Iron Mike]

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20078677,00.html

[Harlan Huckleby]

That's the guy, Erland van Lidth

When I met him, he had very long hair and a beard. I talked to him afterwards in the locker room, he was this friendly, gentle guy. He was 6'6", 420 pounds. I was a lean freshman at the time, 220 pounds. I looked like a child standing next to him.

I was absolutely terrified to "wrestle" him, I don't have the right word to describe what happened. Truth is I lacked the courage to refuse go out there. The guy was super gentle. He never put his weight on me. I can't remember any specifics, terror clouds memory. I think we found an early, mutually agreeable accommodation.

[KYPack]

You guys are the biggest bunch of nervous nellies I've ever seen in my life. I'm sure there is a Girl Scout troop in Winneconne with more heart than you bastards.

We got blown out in our opening game. It was a tough roadie vs a great team. So what? We will lose 3 more road games this season, with the odd home loss thrown in there somewhere.

The season is over?

Bullshit.

In 2003, the Pats got blown out in Buffalo 31 - 0 in their opener. EVERYBODY said their season was over and the sky had fallen. They started the season 2-2 and went on to win the SB.

The season is a long, bumpy road.

Let the record reflect that many of you dove out of the bed of the pickup after the first bump.

[pbmax]

How much better does anyone expect the Packer players to play Defense if they have indeed switched schemes to a 4-3?

Its going to get better, this being the first year of implementation, but how much better?

[Patler]

You guys are the biggest bunch of nervous nellies I've ever seen in my life. I'm sure there is a Girl Scout troop in Winneconne with more heart than you bastards.

We got blown out in our opening game. It was a tough roadie vs a great team. So what? We will lose 3 more road games this season, with the odd home loss thrown in there somewhere.

The season is over?

Bullshit.

In 2003, the Pats got blown out in Buffalo 31 - 0 in their opener. EVERYBODY said their season was over and the sky had fallen. They started the season 2-2 and went on to win the SB.

The season is a long, bumpy road.

Let the record reflect that many of you dove out of the bed of the pickup after the first bump.

Have to agree with you KYP. I watched the 1st quarter in real time, didn't watch the rest until last night. From reading the comments here, I expected to see much worse than I did.

Lots of things to fix/compensate for in the center of the defense, but on the plus side it was nice seeing Peppers and Matthews often getting together at around where the QB was. Hopefully, Daniels has learned that Talking tough is silly before the fact. Be tough first, then talk tough if you must. They should have come away with two interceptions. Jones was a truly lost soul on Thursday, that is true; but Hawk was not as bad as I was expecting from what I read. He made some nice tackles when it was him or lots of running room. He's not going to win any one on one battles against OG's (how many ILBs really will?), so when the DL lets the guards get at him cleanly the result is predetermined.

I am perplexed by the thread criticizing Lacy. The dude ran hard all night, including late in the game when he lowered the boom on Chancellor who hit him dead on with a head of steam to boot. Lacy bounced off for another 3-5 yards, and Chancellor was left grabbing air. How often does that happen to Chancellor? Tough to compare Lacy to Lynch, the opportunities presented to each were so different. I don't know that Lynch broke more tackles, he just had more running room after he did. Lynch would break a tackle and have open space thereafter. Lacy would break a tackle and have three more defenders waiting for him.

At times the offense moved quite effectively, although not as dynamically as we hoped.

First, the Packers have to fix their stupidness (Daniels, Jones, Bakhtiari, MM-4th down, really??, etc.). Then the DL (Pennel or Picket maybe????). Jones has to come to, or someone else needs to have a chance. I am confident the offense will take care of itself. It always does under MM. Hopefully the defense will get better, or at least much more effective).

Those who start the season strong often finish much more slowly (e.g. 2011 Packers). The Giants a couple times, the 2010 Packers and others have shown that the team who hits their stride late in the year often has the better chance in the SB.

You don't have to be the best team in the NFL to win the SB, and you certainly don't have to be the best in week #1.

[Joemailman]

How much better does anyone expect the Packer players to play Defense if they have indeed switched schemes to a 4-3?

Its going to get better, this being the first year of implementation, but how much better?

People can talk about scheme all they want. Packers has 17 missed tackles. No defense can function that way. I think improvement will come from fundamentals, not so much from improved implementation.

[Rutnstrut]

People can talk about scheme all they want. Packers has 17 missed tackles. No defense can function that way. I think improvement will come from fundamentals, not so much from improved implementation.

Why would they work on fundamentals now, they haven't for the last 3 years?

[red]

the big problem for me is that we were promised something better

after last season, there wasn't a cheesehead alive that didn't want slocum gone.he was kept, along with giving him a new partner (zook). we were told things would improve. on thursday night we saw the same old shit we've always seen from slocum special teams. mental mistake after mental mistake, after mental mistake

the defense was bad last year, but according to M3 that wasn't capers fault. the two of them would work together to get everything fixed. we were even told we would play a lot of 4-3. instead on thursday, we saw the same old defense, getting gouged for massive yardage on the ground. we saw the same brad jones who was useless yet deemed unreplaceable in free agency and the draft. and the thing that M3 and capers called a 4-3 was really the 2-4, or 2-5 or 0-7 which most of us all love so much

we were promised more of a rush based attack. but like in years past, the rushing attack was abandoned after the first drive for much of the night

and we also saw a team that couldn't tackle to save there lives. something we have been plagued with in the past, and should have been fixed, but was not

we also saw a staple of M3's time in green bay that pops up way more then it should. a team that comes out of the gates looking completely confused and unprepared to play. when what we were trying to do obviously wasn't working, did we try to adjust? nope

the look of shock and confusion coming from m3 and players faces during the game was enough to piss me off

there were obvious problems with this team last year. after watching pre season and the first game, its become clear that those problems weren't fixed and in some cases not even addressed

[Maxie the Taxi]

First, the Packers have to fix their stupidness (Daniels, Jones, Bakhtiari, MM-4th down, really??, etc.). Then the DL (Pennel or Picket maybe????). Jones has to come to, or someone else needs to have a chance. I am confident the offense will take care of itself. It always does under MM. Hopefully the defense will get better, or at least much more effective).

I have not given up on the Packers by a long shot, but you're right about fixing the stupidness. And in my opinion what needs most fixing is MM. I watched the game in real time and I would argue that the 4th down decision to go for it in the 3rd quarter instead of pinning Seattle deep in their own territory with a punt was a game changer. Bad things tend to happen when you're deep in your own territory...as the Rodgers fumble and consequent Seattle safety demonstrate. And there went the ball game!

I continue to believe MM should let someone else call the plays so he can concentrate on strategy and the flow of the game. Didn't that 4th down decision follow his livid protest of the setting of the play clock? I don't remember.

Moreover, in his presser MM said he regretted that there were uncalled "shot" plays left on his play sheet. He said he didn't call them because "down and distance" wasn't favorable. None of that makes any sense to me. Was taking shots down the field a strategic or a tactical move? If tactical, i.e., dependent on "down and distance," then why should he regret not calling the shot plays? If strategic, i.e., an integral part of the offensive game plan, then it's fair to say Stubby screwed up big time and then it's fair to ask why. Does calling plays keep him from seeing the forest for the trees?

And as far as strategy goes, I thought our offense and defensive strategy was stupid in general.

First, if your number one defensive strategy is to stop the run, why suit up only four D-linemen, none of whom was Pennel, our widest and biggest body?

Second, there seemed to be no strategy to neutralize Harvin and the misdirection plays. The players seemed surprised and confused by them. Surely the Packers were expecting them. Seattle all but advertised Harvin would be a key part of their offense. Plus, they ran that stuff in the Super Bowl.

Third, what was the Packers' offensive strategy? Establish a ground game and a short passing game and grind out scores by eating up the clock with sustained drives? Or establish a ground game and then take scoring shots downfield?

If the former, MM overestimated the team's ability to rush the ball and its readiness to play such a disciplined game (or underestimated Seattle's defense).

If the latter, MM overestimated the ability of Nelson and Cobb to beat 3/4 of the Seattle secondary (having marooned Boykin and Adams on Sherman's Island). Which begs the question: How did MM expect his long shots down the field to succeed with only 4 WR's suited up and an untested rookie at TE (and Quarles who is hardly a deep threat)?

Lastly, I wonder if it was smart, given all of the above, to put so much effort into running a hurry up offense in the snake pit of Century Link field. With all the Packers had going against them -- injuries, new center, first game jitters, and the like -- what did they really gain by the extra complication of no huddle...or was that a strategy in itself?

I suppose one could say that I have the benefit of hindsight, which is true. But as MM says, we should analyze our mistakes and fix them.

[red]

yeah, i didn't get the no huddle either. going no huddle and having to verbally scream out the play to every player on the field in the loudest stadium in the NFL seems kind of stupid

if you're gonna run no huddle, run lots of plays. we got up to the line quick, then used up the whole play clock on almost every play

and finally, they kept saying that the whole point of the no huddle was to keep the same defensive players on the field and to wear them down. that doesn't work when they are man handling you and force you into short drives all night

its like MM looked at what chip kelly was doing and said, hey that no huddle works great for him. he just didn't noticed that the point of kellys offense is to run twice as many plays as normal in a game