GB gave away its chance to improve run defense

[Cleft Crusty]

Gravy Jackson II plays decent run defense for the Oilers, but he's really quite the old slow turd (I can empathize). He offers nothing in pass rush, and, given how long it takes him to get off the field, they often have to take him out after first down, to give him enough rest for the next first down. With Gravy II in there, there would be no doubt that the Packer run defense would improve (how could it not), but there are severe liabilities having a guy like that on your d-line (It would interesting to see the Oilers try to counter the Packer's no-huddle offense, for example. Gravy II probably would exit the game on a stretcher and on a ventilator).

[wist43]

You can't compare what Pickett or anyone else is doing with another team b/c of how dunderdummy misused them while they were here.

We had the right players in place last year for the most part - our ILB's being the lone, very dismal exception; but of course dunderdummy conceived alignments which ensured that those substandard players were on the field 24/7, while more competent DL were standing on the sideline.

Now this year, TT and dunderdummy dump the 3-4 guys, and what do they do?? Of course they start to run a more traditional 3-4/Elephant - which of course is just another misuse of the players they have on the roster now!!!

The common denominators in our mess of a defense are TT and dunderdummy. Whatever it is about those 2 guys putting their heads together, it has been producing some abysmal results.

We had a much better collection of front seven players last year, and dunderdummy fucked it up. The fix would have been to go to a more traditional 3-4 look in either/or down/distance situations, and look to shore up the mess at ILB. TT did nothing to shore up ILB, booted the 3-4 defensive linemen, and dunderdummy augmented those mistakes by miscasting the players he had left - seems par for the course for those guys.

[3irty1]

You can't compare what Pickett or anyone else is doing with another team b/c of how dunderdummy misused them while they were here.

We had the right players in place last year for the most part - our ILB's being the lone, very dismal exception; but of course dunderdummy conceived alignments which ensured that those substandard players were on the field 24/7, while more competent DL were standing on the sideline.

Now this year, TT and dunderdummy dump the 3-4 guys, and what do they do?? Of course they start to run a more traditional 3-4/Elephant - which of course is just another misuse of the players they have on the roster now!!!

The common denominators in our mess of a defense are TT and dunderdummy. Whatever it is about those 2 guys putting their heads together, it has been producing some abysmal results.

We had a much better collection of front seven players last year, and dunderdummy fucked it up. The fix would have been to go to a more traditional 3-4 look in either/or down/distance situations, and look to shore up the mess at ILB. TT did nothing to shore up ILB, booted the 3-4 defensive linemen, and dunderdummy augmented those mistakes by miscasting the players he had left - seems par for the course for those guys.

I didn't think our guys were worse this year, just different. The guys we have now ought to be able to defend the run on the way to the passer in 1-gap fashion. IMO if you have players that are good at anything, even if they are nearly specialists, a good game plan ought to be able to leverage those strengths and achieve acceptable results against both the run and pass. But when we're equally ineffective at everything like we were against NO, it definitely supports your argument that we have a less talented front 7 this season.

[Carolina_Packer]

I didn't think our guys were worse this year, just different. The guys we have now ought to be able to defend the run on the way to the passer in 1-gap fashion. IMO if you have players that are good at anything, even if they are nearly specialists, a good game plan ought to be able to leverage those strengths and achieve acceptable results against both the run and pass. But when we're equally ineffective at everything like we were against NO, it definitely supports your argument that we have a less talented front 7 this season.

Not challenging anything you're saying; just wondering out loud based on your comments. When would you say it's just a defense that laid an egg on a given week (in this case vs. New Orleans) vs. a disturbing trend? To a person on this forum, nobody thinks the Packers have it all figured out on defense. They are very inconsistent. Believe what your eyes show you!

That said, they had shown improvement in some areas in the games previous to the NO game. So, which defense will show up Sunday? The one that couldn't stop the run even when the Bears put in Jimmy Clausen, or the one that shut down the Vikings (until absolute garbage time)?

[3irty1]

Not challenging anything you're saying; just wondering out loud based on your comments. When would you say it's just a defense that laid an egg on a given week (in this case vs. New Orleans) vs. a disturbing trend? To a person on this forum, nobody thinks the Packers have it all figured out on defense. They are very inconsistent. Believe what your eyes show you!

That said, they had shown improvement in some areas in the games previous to the NO game. So, which defense will show up Sunday? The one that couldn't stop the run even when the Bears put in Jimmy Clausen, or the one that shut down the Vikings (until absolute garbage time)?

To me, not all poor run defense performances are the same. Sucking at defending the run because you sold out to defend the pass is a choice which can make sense vs some opponents. Sucking at both is something else entirely.

[Bretsky]

should have singed Pickett and cut Brad Jones

Addition by Addition and addition by subtraction

[pbmax]

should have singed Pickett and cut Brad Jones

Addition by Addition and addition by subtraction

You just refuse to believe the evidence of the last three years. Has all of wist's complaining been in vain?

#Picknottheanswer

[wist43]

I didn't think our guys were worse this year, just different. The guys we have now ought to be able to defend the run on the way to the passer in 1-gap fashion. IMO if you have players that are good at anything, even if they are nearly specialists, a good game plan ought to be able to leverage those strengths and achieve acceptable results against both the run and pass. But when we're equally ineffective at everything like we were against NO, it definitely supports your argument that we have a less talented front 7 this season.

I can get behind that statement to some extent, but not all the way. We let some good, productive players walk, and Raji got hurt.

What we're left with is essentially 4-3 personnel, and of course dunderdummy is misusing this incarnation of players - although not as badly as in years past. Playing an elephant is passable with the personnel we have, but not ideal - and there is simply no covering up for how terrible we are at ILB. At least last year we had enough legitimate defensive line talent to cover up for the mess on the second level - but of course dunderdummy shit all over that approach.

I still like a lot of the players, or at least their potential - we should be better than we are. That said, I think we are now undermanned in the front seven to the point where we'll likely fade badly as the season wears on - we simply don't have the horses to hold up. It isn't that we are getting gashed in the run game b/c we are selling out on the pass - we simply can't defend the run against a stout run blocking offensive line. To be fair, some of that is on the personnel, which is on TT, but most of the responsibility lies with dunderdummy.

The NFC is weaker than anyone projected, so we still have a punchers chance, but I'd put us behind at least a few teams in terms or our chances. It's likely another wasted season b/c 1265 simply can't get the defense fixed.

[Bretsky]

You just refuse to believe the evidence of the last three years. Has all of wist's complaining been in vain?

#Picknottheanswer

I love wist as a poster.....but we always end up agreeing to disagree..with Wist setting up Dom for bashing....while in the end I think our failures point more to TT on defense.
There is no way to use Brad Jones correctly...unless....they just cut his ass or trade him to the Bears...they can even throw in a seventh rounder...just for the Bears taking him

[pbmax]

I love wist as a poster.....but we always end up agreeing to disagree..with Wist setting up Dom for bashing....while in the end I think our failures point more to TT on defense.
There is no way to use Brad Jones correctly...unless....they just cut his ass or trade him to the Bears...they can even throw in a seventh rounder...just for the Bears taking him

Dump him sure. But replace with Pickett is a proven way not to get better at run defense. And I think the conundrum with the Texans points to why.

While he has been there, the run D has gotten better. But the pass D and the D overall are no better, if not a little worse.