WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF DOM CAPERS

[Cheesehead Craig]

I voted for firing. I just don't trust him. My biggest complaint has always been that if plan A isn't working, there doesn't seem to be a plan B. So it's his lack of in-game adjustments when things are going badly is what I am most frustrated with.

[gbgary]

he's good. i think the scouting dept needs upgrading though.

[Patler]

If you can have an effective unit only when you have the best players, you aren't a very good coordinator. By effective, I mean middle of the league.
A good coordinator is one who adapts to the players he has and and finds ways to make them effective even if they aren't a "best in the league" type of unit.

Packer defenses have not been merely ineffective, often they have been awful. A good coordinator avoids being awful even with a lot of mediocre players. Face it, due to roster turnover, injuries and what have you, the Packers have had poor O-lines at times, poor running backs and inexperienced WRs at times. Yet, their offense has found ways to remain effective.

I was among those who were concerned with Capers' history. He seemed to field top 10 type defenses for 2-3 years wherever he went, then faded badly. With all the film available to NFL teams, I'm not sure why that would be, but it is.

[Bretsky]

Not sure I buy into all of that completely Patler.

What our defense does not have is Aaron Rodgers; he really masks weaknesses everywhere..being the best qb in the nfl at the most important position.

But I really think the offense parts around Rodgers are also stronger, personnel wise, than the defensive parts around Clay. I think Ted has done a better job filling out the offensive talent than on defense.

[pbmax]

Thompson did find two guys who sort of fit the Rodgers bill: Collins and Woodson.

Matthews, for all the love and hype, just is not a dominant enough pass rusher to single-handedly change an offense. Maybe you need 2-3 of them on D rather than just the one at QB for Offense.

[Patler]

Not sure I buy into all of that completely Patler.

What our defense does not have is Aaron Rodgers; he really masks weaknesses everywhere..being the best qb in the nfl at the most important position.

But I really think the offense parts around Rodgers are also stronger, personnel wise, than the defensive parts around Clay. I think Ted has done a better job filling out the offensive talent than on defense.

I won't dispute that Rodgers makes a lot of difference, BUT a QB alone is limited. I'm not convinced that the offense has had all that much more talent top to bottom than the defense has had. They've just performed better as a unit. MM has maximized the effectiveness of Rodgers and Favre before him even when they had no running game, even when the depth at WR was/is limited due to injuries and roster turnover, even when they have had little at TE because Finley was out, and even when the O-line struggled.

Has Capers maximized the effectiveness of Matthews? Raji? Anyone other than Woodson in 2010? Have the defensive players been that much worse and/or more limited than Newhouse, Saturday, EDS (who I think was a lot worse than his reputation), Kuhn, Quarless, Alex Green, Crabtree, DJ Williams, Boykin, Benson, Barclay and a host of others that the offense has had to rely on at times?

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

[Joemailman]

.

[mraynrand]

I won't dispute that Rodgers makes a lot of difference, BUT a QB alone is limited. I'm not convinced that the offense has had all that much more talent top to bottom than the defense has had. They've just performed better as a unit. MM has maximized the effectiveness of Rodgers and Favre before him even when they had no running game, even when the depth at WR was/is limited due to injuries and roster turnover, even when they have had little at TE because Finley was out, and even when the O-line struggled.

Has Capers maximized the effectiveness of Matthews? Raji? Anyone other than Woodson in 2010? Have the defensive players been that much worse and/or more limited than Newhouse, Saturday, EDS (who I think was a lot worse than his reputation), Kuhn, Quarless, Alex Green, Crabtree, DJ Williams, Boykin, Benson, Barclay and a host of others that the offense has had to rely on at times?

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

Good post. But the difference is the QB. Not many defensive players can have the kind of impact of a QB who is one of the top three QBs in the league.

Capers is decent, not great, and like so many coaches, looks so much better with great experienced talent. Can't deny that Packer struck gold in 2010 with Collins, Woodson, Matthews, Williams, and Raji all playing at a high level, plus guys like Pickett, Jenkins, Shields, and Bishop all playing well down the stretch. 2014 could see the same thing if Daniels, Peppers, Matthews, Burnett, and Shields could play like pro bowlers and others could play well consistently down the stretch. It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though...

[woodbuck27]

Good post. But the difference is the QB. Not many defensive players can have the kind of impact of a QB who is one of the top three QBs in the league.

Capers is decent, not great, and like so many coaches, looks so much better with great experienced talent. Can't deny that Packer struck gold in 2010 with Collins, Woodson, Matthews, Williams, and Raji all playing at a high level, plus guys like Pickett, Jenkins, Shields, and Bishop all playing well down the stretch. 2014 could see the same thing if Daniels, Peppers, Matthews, Burnett, and Shields could play like pro bowlers and others could play well consistently down the stretch. It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though...

" It has to start gelling pretty damn soon though..." m

Sometime like ...TODAY Vs the New England Patriots ! It doesn't get much better (more HUGE) than what we hope to see today.

GO PACKERS !

[pbmax]

The offense probably has been a somewhat more talented than the defense, but so much so to justify the difference of the offense being one of the best in the league, and the defense one of the worst? I don't think so.

This is the question I keep coming back to but I get to the opposite conclusion (which is why I don't favor summarily firing him).

Since 2010, rank of Defense on Points Allowed
2011 - 19th
2012 - 11th
2013 - 24th
2014 - 15th

OK, ranks and yearly totals leave a lot of things out, so how about more advanced metrics?

Football Outsiders
2011 - 25th
2012 - 8th
2013 - 31st
2014 - 12th

Just for comparison's sake, Bob Sanders was fired after finishing 22nd in PA and 12th at Football Outsiders. There is a lot of bend but don't break in Capers D, especially the two worst years. Yardage ranks are lower than points allowed.

[Bossman641]

I voted average and my reasoning is as follows. When is the last time we had a truly dominant DL? Raji or Jenkins during the SB run? Even the years that we've had a decent DL it's always been a mix of run pluggers (Jolly/Jenkins) and pass rushers (Daniels). Not enough balanced/2 way players. I don't even need to discuss the LB situation. It's been a revolving door opposite CM3 and the ILB's need a serious upgrade.

[Smidgeon]

Maybe it was injuries forcing Dom's hand, but he hasn't been this creative (2014) since 2010 when he ran the Woodson 2-4 all year. And it's been effective.

We've basically been harping on him for the 2011, 2012, and 2013 defensive failings. But don't those coincide with waaay too many injuries? HHCD may have finally filled Collins' spot (not the same skill, but far from an embarrassment), and that needed filling. Plus Hyde, Hayward, Daniels, etc.

[pbmax]

Health is a big factor here and it was last year in reverse fashion. Only Perry and maybe Hawk were limited yesterday.

[wist43]

So dunderdummy has put together 2 decent games in the last 4... makes me wonder what his motivation is - such as, are TT and MM holding his family hostage and actually forcing him to do his job??

Doing his job for the sake of doing his job doesn't make sense, b/c afterall - he is dunderdummy. Have to assume he's got a gun to his head in some way

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Haven't looked at the game yet though... saw some of the 4th quarter - I turned it on, and the first 5 plays I saw were NE ramming it down our throats for 50+ yds and a TD, lol...

My brother sent me a text about 1/2 way thru the 2nd quarter and said, "... here comes the 2-4, gonna get ugly now"; and then 3 minutes later, he texted, "... NE TD".

Still, the stats look good, and they kept the score down... Neal's sack near the end saved the day - great play by Neal. I'll look at the game tomorrow.

[gbgary]

liked the barrington move.