Winners - Losers Packers vs. Bills

[pbmax]

Happy Hanukkah!

Molotov!

[pbmax]

"Eat Shit!!!!!!"

"Fuck You!!!!"

I cannot believe the continued efforts to get that chant banned. Old people.

[pbmax]

This Packer team under McCarthy has always struggled against aggressive defenses, usually quality defenses, but the Packers don't have physical receivers, they run good routes and usually have good hands, but when they get bumped off of their route and are getting fooled with they struggle to combat the physical play. Rodgers gets the jitters, and his usually good footwork goes to hell. According to Leroy Butler he rewatched the game film and saw open receivers for the Packers. I don't support only running the ball 20 times unless the defense continually commits 8 guys to the box, but that was not the case on Sunday. The lack of a tough, athletic tight end also hurts the Packers when playing a defense like the Bills, or the Seahawks, even Arizona. Luckily they play the Lions at home in week 17.

See, I don't find the aggressive defense theory persuasive. They have also struggled with passive, rush four, Cover 2 man under and Cover 2 zone under defenses before. If both were always true, they wouldn't be leading the league in points. They struggle with good Defenses with good plans well executed. Matchups are more important.

Nelson is big enough to get off press, but he is faster than quick and shorter routes are not his forte. Cobb runs better route adjustments than he runs actual routes. All we need to know about Cobb's ability to shake off press coverage is that he spends his time in the slot or in the backfield. Both Boykin and Adams are good enough about getting off the line. But one is unreliable and the other is a rookie. If Boykin from last year, Adams from this year or James Jones were alive, contested slants might have been caught and all are better on that route than Cobb or Nelson.

Defenses that hide their coverage with a pass rush cause them problems, and Rodgers had the look of a man who did not want to wait at times for something to break open n Buffalo.

The Buffalo coverage plan was to play off receivers just a bit (one CB would press at times) and jump the earliest route they saw coming. That is why so many throw were contested. This was a game they should have run more and thrown deeper. Screen are always helpful if someone is going to play man.

TE is a problem, Quarless needs help to shake tight coverage.

I will say this about Rodgers, he has been off target more as the season has progressed. Not sure what is happening there. Its especially notable short, though I can't explain the emergence of Starks as a pass catching threat at the same time. I'l claim small sample size.

[pbmax]

That sounds like a witch to me. Able to start fires by their mere presence. There is no fire, not even any smoke. The intolerant people are making 100% of the trouble.

So how long does a ban last under the Rule d' Harlan?

Isn't there also a ban on multiple user accounts for the same person?

[Harlan Huckleby]

So how long does a ban last under the Rule d' Harlan?

Isn't there also a ban on multiple user accounts for the same person?

I don't notice this stuff, no opinion. I just ignore people I don't like. If you think Madtown should not have unbanned tank, direct your anger at him.

[Fritz]

See, I don't find the aggressive defense theory persuasive. They have also struggled with passive, rush four, Cover 2 man under and Cover 2 zone under defenses before. If both were always true, they wouldn't be leading the league in points. They struggle with good Defenses with good plans well executed. Matchups are more important.

Nelson is big enough to get off press, but he is faster than quick and shorter routes are not his forte. Cobb runs better route adjustments than he runs actual routes. All we need to know about Cobb's ability to shake off press coverage is that he spends his time in the slot or in the backfield. Both Boykin and Adams are good enough about getting off the line. But one is unreliable and the other is a rookie. If Boykin from last year, Adams from this year or James Jones were alive, contested slants might have been caught and all are better on that route than Cobb or Nelson.

Defenses that hide their coverage with a pass rush cause them problems, and Rodgers had the look of a man who did not want to wait at times for something to break open n Buffalo.

The Buffalo coverage plan was to play off receivers just a bit (one CB would press at times) and jump the earliest route they saw coming. That is why so many throw were contested. This was a game they should have run more and thrown deeper. Screen are always helpful if someone is going to play man.

TE is a problem, Quarless needs help to shake tight coverage.

I will say this about Rodgers, he has been off target more as the season has progressed. Not sure what is happening there. Its especially notable short, though I can't explain the emergence of Starks as a pass catching threat at the same time. I'l claim small sample size.

Well, to work this to the Packers' advantage, we need to create a shitstorm about how horrible Rodgers played in Buffalo, then use your claim to extrapolate that Rodgers has gotten more and more inaccurate as the season has gone on. This gets Rodgers's thin-skinned dander up, he hoists a 500 lb. chip onto his shoulder, and if the ST can get straigthened out, he leads the team to the Super Bowl, home or road.

[pbmax]

I don't notice this stuff, no opinion. I just ignore people I don't like. If you think Madtown should not have unbanned tank, direct your anger at him.

1. He didn't un-ban him, Tank created another account
2. Contacting Mad is a one way street these days, his Inbox is full
3. Despite breaking two of the only three rules, you would just ignore him.

If Mad wants him here to have a little fun and drive posts, that's his call. But lets not pretend we haven't been down this road before.

[Deputy Nutz]

Pbmax, I don't mean aggressive the blitzing sense, because as soon as you create one on one matchups Rodgers is an MVP. I think at times, even in single game situations he struggles against the soft zone, or the under coverage while rushing 4. When I say Rodgers I mean the offense. Rodgers doesn't like to take chances with the football is one reason, he like to throw to the guy that is the most open. Which is ok when the Packers are up by 14, but when the game is close he gets tight. This offense like to run longer routes, not just deep routes but longer routes. When they're are more guys in coverage it takes a longer period of time to have a guy bust the zone. Sometimes pressure gets to Rodgers in the pocket and he breaks contain, but then you have receivers not aligned with QB, because they are not looking his way yet. Again personnel has to be good on the defensive side of the ball, and if a team rushes four, and drops coverage, along with a strong coordinator this is the type of defense that give the Problems. Seahawks, Giants, Detroit, Bills, and possibly the Cardinals.

[pbmax]

Well, to work this to the Packers' advantage, we need to create a shitstorm about how horrible Rodgers played in Buffalo, then use your claim to extrapolate that Rodgers has gotten more and more inaccurate as the season has gone on. This gets Rodgers's thin-skinned dander up, he hoists a 500 lb. chip onto his shoulder, and if the ST can get straigthened out, he leads the team to the Super Bowl, home or road.

I am Tweeting insulting questions to #AskAaron as we speak.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well, to work this to the Packers' advantage, we need to create a shitstorm about how horrible Rodgers played in Buffalo, then use your claim to extrapolate that Rodgers has gotten more and more inaccurate as the season has gone on. This gets Rodgers's thin-skinned dander up, he hoists a 500 lb. chip onto his shoulder, and if the ST can get straigthened out, he leads the team to the Super Bowl, home or road.

I pretty much agree, Rodgers was due to have a shit game, and a perfect place to have it was in Buffalo because the Packers always play like shit there. They also had shitty production from everyone on offense but the running backs. 7 drops is the most this season by any NFL club, not exactly Rodgers problem. So to play the blame game, sure Rodgers was terrible, but nobody picked up the slack that was allowed to.

[woodbuck27]

" – Classic Troll Tactic Number 5: When all else fails, claim to be leaving forever. Trolls who claim they are leaving never do, of course; you can bet that anyone who proclaims, "I'm never coming back here," will most certainly at least check back for responses, and probably will not be able to resist posting again. "

That type is familiar. He never learned this lesson:

[pbmax]

Pbmax, I don't mean aggressive the blitzing sense, because as soon as you create one on one matchups Rodgers is an MVP. I think at times, even in single game situations he struggles against the soft zone, or the under coverage while rushing 4. When I say Rodgers I mean the offense. Rodgers doesn't like to take chances with the football is one reason, he like to throw to the guy that is the most open. Which is ok when the Packers are up by 14, but when the game is close he gets tight. This offense like to run longer routes, not just deep routes but longer routes. When they're are more guys in coverage it takes a longer period of time to have a guy bust the zone. Sometimes pressure gets to Rodgers in the pocket and he breaks contain, but then you have receivers not aligned with QB, because they are not looking his way yet. Again personnel has to be good on the defensive side of the ball, and if a team rushes four, and drops coverage, along with a strong coordinator this is the type of defense that give the Problems. Seahawks, Giants, Detroit, Bills, and possibly the Cardinals.

Well, they have to do something good on offense to get up 14.

But I do agree he prefers not to throw the contested ball, though he has before at times (Packers don't win the Super Bowl if he doesn't throw Jennings open over the middle twice*). And in close games (meaning closely contested on both sides, not a defensive surrender game like Cardinals playoff game) I do think this can hurt him in a comeback.

But Buffalo inverted the Giants formula. The Bills were jumping early routes and played some single high. And there was pass protection (though not unlimited time like Atlanta) for large stretches of time. Unless the Bills manhandled the OLine (on the road a possibility-see Seattle), they should have carved it up with those longer, double-move routes (like Nelson's dropped TD). In fact, the closest D performance to what the Bills did is probably Seattle this year. 49ers sat back in two deep man under and dared the offense to run.

Unlike the Giants and 49ers, the answer isn't as obvious for the Bills and Seahawks. My concern is that it doesn't appear McCarthy thinks they need a change. They are just not good at a patient offense early in games. Unless its the four-minute offense, they stumble over their own feet.


* bad description. He threw Jennings a ball inside three defenders. First thought was INT. Second thought was career ending hit.

[Fritz]

I pretty much agree, Rodgers was due to have a shit game, and a perfect place to have it was in Buffalo because the Packers always play like shit there. They also had shitty production from everyone on offense but the running backs. 7 drops is the most this season by any NFL club, not exactly Rodgers problem. So to play the blame game, sure Rodgers was terrible, but nobody picked up the slack that was allowed to.

Look, Nutzy, this strategy is only going to work if we amass the blame upon Rodgers and Rodgers alone. He can't rustle up a big enough chip if he doesn't get all the blame. The more undeserved the criticism, the better he'll play in the following weeks.

[woodbuck27]

Look, Nutzy, this strategy is only going to work if we amass the blame upon Rodgers and Rodgers alone. He can't rustle up a big enough chip if he doesn't get all the blame. The more undeserved the criticism, the better he'll play in the following weeks.

So......... should MM and Clements be TRASHING Aaron Rodgers?

I've reviewed that game and Aaron Rodgers wasn't just a tad off his game.

He was horribly off his game and for whatever reason he played ugly.

He couldn't throw a ball into a hay wagon on the day.

[pbmax]

Here is the other thing to consider:

Football Outsiders covers the excellent Defense usually stops great Offense. http://t.co/iPTodcJ2dJ

I would argue that a lot depends on match ups, but generally agree with the thrust. So if the Packers were ever going to score more than 24 points, what went wrong?

Special Teams is culprit #1 and the offense doesn't help here because they weren't pulling their weight in field position (3rd down conversion, INTs).

But the offense was maybe one drive away from putting the game away and that could come down to the holding on Sitton on the long run that came back and Nelson's drop. They fix one of those big errors and the game would have been reversed. Or if McCarthy had gone for a first down rather than FG.