Lions game studs and duds

[Maxie the Taxi]

Kickoffs and kicks after safeties are the two "Free kicks" and the same free kick rules apply - must go ten yards or touch opposition before kicking team can recover.

So, fair catch is allowed? And proper space must be given to allow player to make the fair catch? And if fair catch is made, can receiving team attempt an uncontested field goal from the spot of the catch?

[Patler]

I heard somewhere that special teams are ragged all around the league this year. Not sure what's going on. I wonder if larger rosters would provide more continuity.

I read that coaches are attributing it to the new limitations on practices. STs are getting less dedicated practice time, especially in pads, because coaches want to use the time on offense and defense. Also less time for coaches to work with the younger players, who often comprise much of the STs.

[mraynrand]

So, fair catch is allowed? And proper space must be given to allow player to make the fair catch? And if fair catch is made, can receiving team attempt an uncontested field goal from the spot of the catch?

Yes to all. The difference is the kick. Onside kick hits the ground first and that changes everything (no fair catch available of course, but offense tips their hand). The kicker on the free kick after the safety can also choose to kickoff in traditional form without a tee (I assume someone would have to hold it for him).

Several Packers signaled fair catch, and would have been afforded the protections of a fair catch (because the ball didn't hit the ground first) but they didn't get to the ball and so it is a live ball, just like any kickoff.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Yes to all. The difference is the kick. Onside kick hits the ground first and that changes everything (no fair catch available of course, but offense tips their hand). The kicker on the free kick after the safety can also choose to kickoff in traditional form without a tee (I assume someone would have to hold it for him).

Several Packers signaled fair catch, and would have been afforded the protections of a fair catch (because the ball didn't hit the ground first) but they didn't get to the ball and so it is a live ball, just like any kickoff.

Man, what a screwed up play yesterday. It almost seemed that Cobb was impeded getting to the ball. I can't remember yard marker, but if he could have fair caught it, Crosby would have had a free kick which would have iced the game.

I wonder if any of our players were aware of the rules. Or even the refs, for that matter.

[mraynrand]

Man, what a screwed up play yesterday. It almost seemed that Cobb was impeded getting to the ball. I can't remember yard marker, but if he could have fair caught it, Crosby would have had a free kick which would have iced the game.

I wonder if any of our players were aware of the rules. Or even the refs, for that matter.

Refs definitely knew what was going on. Packers were confused, especially T.Will. If T. Will had called for a fair catch, there probably would have been a penalty for interference. Nelson and Cobb knew what was up, but they were too far away. I think Cobb reacted too slow, but as you say, there was a lot of trash in his way. Detroit played it really well. Kick the ball really high and start blocking like crazy - get that ball to hit the ground.

[denverYooper]

Refs definitely knew what was going on. Packers were confused, especially T.Will. If T. Will had called for a fair catch, there probably would have been a penalty for interference. Nelson and Cobb knew what was up, but they were too far away. I think Cobb reacted too slow, but as you say, there was a lot of trash in his way. Detroit played it really well. Kick the ball really high and start blocking like crazy - get that ball to hit the ground.

In the end, it became a "teachable moment" instead of a fatal gaffe.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I remember watching a game years ago, during the glory years. Lombardi had his kick returner fair catch a short kickoff. Hornung then kicked a free kick and scored a field goal...I believe to win the game. Come to think of it, that might have been after a safety. ...Damn, my memory is going to shit.

[Maxie the Taxi]

According to NFL Game Summary (PDF):

S.Martin kicks 28 yards from DET 20 to DET 48. R.Cobb MUFFS catch, RECOVERED by DET-C.Vaughn at GB 44. C.Vaughn to GB 44 for no gain (J.Nelson).

Two things:
1) Apparently, Cobb's fair catch signal was recognized, else how could he muff it? But then interference with the catch should have been called;
2) If Cobb could have caught the ball, Crosby could have tried an uncontested free kick which, if successful, could have won the game for sure.

[pbmax]

I remember watching a game years ago, during the glory years. Lombardi had his kick returner fair catch a short kickoff. Hornung then kicked a free kick and scored a field goal...I believe to win the game. Come to think of it, that might have been after a safety. ...Damn, my memory is going to shit.

In this case the Packers would have run the ball or kneeled.

The great benefit to the free kick/fair catch is that you can call a fair catch after the kick and get to line up a FG try without the clocking running at all.

[mraynrand]

1) Apparently, Cobb's fair catch signal was recognized, else how could he muff it? But then interference with the catch should have been called;

he didn't reach the ball. there was 'interference' but not illegal (penalty) interference. Just a lot of guys in the way.

2) If Cobb could have caught the ball, Crosby could have tried an uncontested free kick which, if successful, could have won the game for sure.

Yep, but he probably would have missed it

[Patler]

I remember watching a game years ago, during the glory years. Lombardi had his kick returner fair catch a short kickoff. Hornung then kicked a free kick and scored a field goal...I believe to win the game. Come to think of it, that might have been after a safety. ...Damn, my memory is going to shit.

Well, it was only a few years ago that Crosby tried a free kick at the end of the half following a fair catch on a punt. His 69 yard attempt at Lambeau in December was dead center, and just barely short.

[Maxie the Taxi]

In this case the Packers would have run the ball or kneeled.

The great benefit to the free kick/fair catch is that you can call a fair catch after the kick and get to line up a FG try without the clocking running at all.

On the other hand, a free kick from the 48 (high probability of a make since it's uncontested) would make the game a three possession game.

[mraynrand]

Well, it was only a few years ago that Crosby tried a free kick at the end of the half following a fair catch on a punt. His 69 yard attempt at Lambeau in December was dead center, and just barely short.

that was the 0-16 game against Detroit. That kick, if made, would have been a bright spot in a dismal end to that season.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Well, it was only a few years ago that Crosby tried a free kick at the end of the half following a fair catch on a punt. His 69 yard attempt at Lambeau in December was dead center, and just barely short.

See, I learn something new everyday. I didn't know you could free kick after fair catching a PUNT. Very interesting!

[Packers4Glory]

Hyde wasn't just good on his return, the blocking overall was excellent.
On the shanked punt, without the penalty, the starting line was the 20. That's not good, but not terrible either.
On the 41 yard return, there was a block in the back not called. I think it made a difference.
If you're looking to me as someone who think the Packer's STs are great, I'm not your guy. But they're not "Just terrible in practically every phase"

what? They are pretty much terrible at every phase of special teams. The return game is the only phase of special teams that you can point to as being "ok."

As a sum of it's parts, the special teams units are horrendous. There is no amount of sugar coating anyone can do to intelligently argue against it.