Official Randall Cobb FA Thread

[Guiness]

Unfortunately, when discussing NFL players, too often notoriety is the correct term.

Indeed

[Guiness]

i read something similar a day or two ago, but not just that jordy would be upset, but it would just send the wrong message to the rest of the team to give the clear #2 more money per year then you just gave your #1 at the beginning of the season

Jordy got his early, Cobb is an FA. An untagged one. There's no mystery in why he could well end up with more money.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Source: Cobb would be taking less to return to Green Bay

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=40&post_id=47921

[red]

texans are going after cobb

[pbmax]

i read something similar a day or two ago, but not just that jordy would be upset, but it would just send the wrong message to the rest of the team to give the clear #2 more money per year then you just gave your #1 at the beginning of the season

I don't buy it, actually. Certainly someone could have a poor reaction, but Nelson could have not signed an extension and gone to FA. He didn't, Cobb did. Case closed. Nelson had one less year of risk. That is the price.

[Patler]

A few years ago when Bob Harlan was discussing his career, he brought up this very issue. Recalling when he negotiated player contracts, he said the biggest lesson he had to learn was to establish a ceiling for each player, and stick to it. He said the natural tendency was to give in to players you liked, who were easy to manage, etc. But, that had two negative results. First, every dollar you overpaid to one is a dollar unavailable for another player this year and every year until the overpaid contract expires. He said this was the least of the problems. The worst was ruining the hierarchy of player pay. He said nothing destroys a locker room quicker than making it look as if someone was favored, or someone else taken advantage of. Not just the players affected, but others seeing it.

So, it might not be Nelson they are concerned with, but what it might look like to others in the locker room.

Harlan said it is the hardest thing to do, but sometime you just have to let a player go, rather than give him a bit more to stay, no matter how badly you want to keep him.

A solution used a couple times by Wolf, and several more by Sherman, would be to redo Nelson to give him a bit more. For a while the Packers seemed to do that every year with a player or two, even without significantly extending their contracts. Players who they thought should be slotted higher than they were. Driver benefited from that twice and Rivera at least once, I think. A couple others, too.

[pbmax]

Nelson and Cobb are not in the same boat. One signed a contract in 2014 offseason (effectively). One is signing a contract is 2014 offseason. Cobb incurred more risk.

Harlan's strategy kinda falls apart in an age of FA and salary cap escalations of 8% a year.

[red]

chargers now might be in play for cobb

[red]

Nelson and Cobb are not in the same boat. One signed a contract in 2014 offseason (effectively). One is signing a contract is 2014 offseason. Cobb incurred more risk.

Harlan's strategy kinda falls apart in an age of FA and salary cap escalations of 8% a year.

yeah, it sends the message that if you hold out till the last moment you will make a lot more money, which isn't a good thing for the team

we knew what we had in cobb and jordy last offseason, we managed to get jordy early and cheaper and all his teamates were happy he got the big deal. we did not get cobb done early, and now he's set to make a lot more $$$$ then the better player got less then a year ago

[Patler]

Nelson and Cobb are not in the same boat. One signed a contract in 2014 offseason (effectively). One is signing a contract is 2014 offseason. Cobb incurred more risk.

Harlan's strategy kinda falls apart in an age of FA and salary cap escalations of 8% a year.

No, his strategy doesn't fall apart at all, you simply factor in the increases too. Players understand that part.

Players can understand Cobb making nearly what Nelson does, perhaps just a slight bit more. They might not understand the idea of Cobb making $11M or more.

I think the idea of players taking anything significantly less to sign early is antiquated, at best. All it does is anger them a year or two later At best, signing early gives the team a bit more freedom to manipulate cap hits, but the players still (mostly) expect whatever would be fair if they were in fact a FA at the time

[Carolina_Packer]

Somehow, I think if the the players were faced with the prospect of having Cobb on the team being productive, they would live with the front office having given into his market value, vs. seeing him walk out the door. If they are far away money-wise, that's one thing. If they are close, go ahead and overpay a bit if you don't want to lose the player. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face, or your face may never look the same.

[pbmax]

No, his strategy doesn't fall apart at all, you simply factor in the increases too. Players understand that part.

Players can understand Cobb making nearly what Nelson does, perhaps just a slight bit more. They might not understand the idea of Cobb making $11M or more.

I think the idea of players taking anything significantly less to sign early is antiquated, at best. All it does is anger them a year or two later At best, signing early gives the team a bit more freedom to manipulate cap hits, but the players still (mostly) expect whatever would be fair if they were in fact a FA at the time

Nelson has done it twice, both times he traded in the risk of the last year of a deal for new guaranteed money and a longer term deal. Nelson accomplished what many do when they take a shorter deal and hope to hit FA in their peak again (like Finley tried to do). Nelson did it by taking less, earlier.

[red]

Somehow, I think if the the players were faced with the prospect of having Cobb on the team being productive, they would live with the front office having given into his market value, vs. seeing him walk out the door. If they are far away money-wise, that's one thing. If they are close, go ahead and overpay a bit if you don't want to lose the player. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face, or your face may never look the same.

in order to tell if they can even be "close" we have to find jordies true number

its widley reported that jordy signed a 4 year 39 million dollar contract meaning his number per year is 9.7 ish (this is the number we're all thinking it is)

in fact, he signed a 4 year 39 million dollar EXTENSION to what he was already suppose to make in 2014, which was about 2.75 million i think

making it actually a 5 year 41.75 million dollar deal or less then 8.35ish million per year

so if cobb were to get 10 million a year, he would be making a lot more then jordy makes

[pbmax]

yeah, it sends the message that if you hold out till the last moment you will make a lot more money, which isn't a good thing for the team

we knew what we had in cobb and jordy last offseason, we managed to get jordy early and cheaper and all his teamates were happy he got the big deal. we did not get cobb done early, and now he's set to make a lot more $$$$ then the better player got less then a year ago

The players know what risk is involved by playing out a contract. Look at what that did to Finley. Cobb won the gamble. Jennings lost the gamble.

I find the idea that the players wouldn't understand to be unconvincing. Someone could make a stink, but it would not be based on the logic of who incurred the greater risk/reward.

Nelson won his bet. He signed early twice and got two nice paydays in a timespan where many FAs only get one monster deal. He traded away one year in each of his deals for more money and more guarantees. Cobb, if he signs a mega-deal, might have to sign for enough years to get one shot at this.

[red]

The players know what risk is involved by playing out a contract. Look at what that did to Finley. Cobb won the gamble. Jennings lost the gamble.

I find the idea that the players wouldn't understand to be unconvincing. Someone could make a stink, but it would not be based on the logic of who incurred the greater risk/reward.

Nelson won his bet. He signed early twice and got two nice paydays in a timespan where many FAs only get one monster deal. He traded away one year in each of his deals for more money and more guarantees. Cobb, if he signs a mega-deal, might have to sign for enough years to get one shot at this.

i think "we" (you me and everyone else) tend to give way more credit to players then they deserve when it comes to the smarts department

how else can you explain all these guys signing "fake number" deals, or being pissed or shocked when they get cut in year 3 of their deal when their cap number jumps from 2 million a year to 17?