Coaching/Schemes

[wist43]

ND, I understand what you're talking about "wrong shouldering a DL" essentially to entice him into running himself out of the play, but I don't think that's the case with what the Packers are doing - and, if that's the case, then what they're attempting to do is unsound and doomed to continue to fail.

Based on what they've been doing so far in the preseason, I don't see where the back would even have the option to cut it back b/c the backside pursuit is coming down the line essentially unmolested. If the DL takes the proper angle the play is over, and the back will be lucky to get back to the LOS.

I'm very skeptical of this coaching staff.

Wist,

There are automatics, line calls, and backside plays to counter this.

Two things:

- it's totally possible they haven't installed all this to the young line.

- They are trying to stay vanilla in Pre-season and not unveil any of this before things get real in the regular season.

Just letting the D blow up the plays isn't in the program. It has to be inexperience or a strategy that is causing 'em to not make the adjustments.

That said, we should be running the counters and backside plays to get the guys experienced in making the adjustments.

I'm sure things are very vanilla at this point, but there's no rationale or excuse that can account for what I'm seeing on tape. They've been doing it consistently this preseason, and it's very unsound.

I'll go back and look at the tape and let you know where in the game is an example of what I'm talking about. I find it hard to believe that what I'm seeing on tape can be justified in any way. Sound, fundamental technique isn't rocket science - I don't see how it could be rationalized even on the basis of saying that the entire scheme hasn't been installed yet.

[wist43]

Wist - While I often don't agree with you I want to compliment you on this thread. Nice to read a thread by a bunch of people who are actually talking football - schemes and what they are and whether they'll work.
Thank you.

I don't have any expertise on the topic; my limited knowledge allows me only to observe that there seem to be an awful lot of d-lineman and linebackers right up in the faces of our running backs right before they hit the line of scrimmage.

Thanks Fritz... we all have our disagreements and differing opinions on here and that's what makes for lively discussion and debate.

[Willard]

Wist - While I often don't agree with you I want to compliment you on this thread. Nice to read a thread by a bunch of people who are actually talking football - schemes and what they are and whether they'll work.
Thank you.

I don't have any expertise on the topic; my limited knowledge allows me only to observe that there seem to be an awful lot of d-lineman and linebackers right up in the faces of our running backs right before they hit the line of scrimmage.

Thanks Fritz... we all have our disagreements and differing opinions on here and that's what makes for lively discussion and debate.

I concur with Fritz. As an observer without deep schematic knowledge I can tell when something doesn't look right, but it is interesting to hear from those who can break it all down for us. Keep it coming.

[Joemailman]

You guys know more about the nuts and bolts than I do. I would just ask this question: Any chance that the schemes that seem wrong are merely experiments to be tried out in the pre-season, which will be canned once the regular season starts?

[woodbuck27]

You're right, Partial. TT is really good at those amazingly lucky draft picks that turn out well...

I LOVE IT !!

Way to stand in there for Ole Ted MJ.

How much strength do YOU have?

three...four...five... seven ... how many many " tear's in my beer's", errrr

YEAR's WORTH?

[MJZiggy]

Evidently I have more strength than you do. I'm sure as hell not going to cry over a preseason game. I'd rather get slaughtered in every one of 'em than be one of those teams who is undefeated in the preseason and then goes 2-14. Hopefully they learn from this and manage to come together as a team which is really what TT is after. I will concede that they are for sure going to suck right after Brett Favre does. Until then, they are a young team who will grow and learn together with a master under center.

[woodbuck27]

You guys know more about the nuts and bolts than I do. I would just ask this question: Any chance that the schemes that seem wrong are merely experiments to be tried out in the pre-season, which will be canned once the regular season starts?

Yes. We still...... have that to HOPE for Joemailman or do we?

I think what is more relevant is " the fact ' of just plain n' simple inexperience entering the REAL SHOW and they are at center stage.

All across the board from The front Office to the Coach's on the field...

It will all be told... in Favre's next Havel hashed book.

Favre has to be shaking his head... but MJZiggy leaves me with some hope that that's a NOT.

I have to find time for Brett Favre's conference. I'm wondering though if Ted's not scripting even Brett? Maybe promising him a Scouting job in Misissippi for the health of the FUTURE health of OUR franchise.

I was troubled over a quote that I read credited to Ted Thompson Re; how Brett Favre was handling himself, as he was deciding on his playing career before he committed to 2006 with " the Packers " ...as to this:

(and... I paraphrase)

" I just don't want Brett to do anything to (embarass or harm) the history of the Packer Organization (or Franchise) "

I read that quote from an Article written about three weeks ago, and I said to myself:

What !?

Why would Ted Thompson make such a comment? That was a pointless - a moot statement. All the press or reprts told us that Ted and Brett were in more than less constant contact.

I believe that Brett's return was the same as bailing Ted Thompsons ass in a sling.

I think, that GOOD Ole BOY Brett...

is just " taking another one " for the TEAM. OUR TEAM TED

PACKERS ! HOLD FOR FAITH PACKER FANS !!

[MJZiggy]

Woodbuck!! I'm ashamed of you!! NOBODY scripts Brett Favre in his conferences. Even if they did, he's frankly just not that good an actor.

[woodbuck27]

Evidently I have more strength than you do. I'm sure as hell not going to cry over a preseason game. I'd rather get slaughtered in every one of 'em than be one of those teams who is undefeated in the preseason and then goes 2-14. Hopefully they learn from this and manage to come together as a team which is really what TT is after. I will concede that they are for sure going to suck right after Brett Favre does. Until then, they are a young team who will grow and learn together with a master under center.

" Evidently I have more strength than you do." MJZiggy

WOW WOW WOW !! MJ.

Are you sincerely directing that at me? WRONG if YOU are?

I am certainly NOT in "the tossing in the TOWEL" category. I am very grounded in what I see with OUR team, and have to balance that with support for Packer fans here.

That... is an unselfish agenda.

Do you see otherwise in me? I am not going to ever credit OUR GM as he's left us to date on OUR Offense. It's really SAD. Ted Thompson has got to do one thing soon.

Pull his DAM head out of his butt. Get to real.

** I am for Packer fans for Packer players and certainly for OUR Packer Vet's that I remain loyal to as a Packer fan, as a decent caring person. That makes mere good sense to me MJ.

That precludes... kissing Ted Thompson's ring.

GO and find proof that I am not just there **. . .and PLEASE MJZiggy - try do a better job than the fella you cheered on last week.

That man's respose was bogus (weak), but you cheer for him? Are you getting too fair? Be honest with yourself PLEASE... if not with me as I know the difference MJ.

GO PACK GO ! HOLD FAITH FOR 2006 !!

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck!! I'm ashamed of you!! NOBODY scripts Brett Favre in his conferences. Even if they did, he's frankly just not that good an actor.

If discrediting me is your need "let it all hang out" MJ.

GO PACK GO ! Faith in 2006 Packer Fan's.

I'm still waitng Ted .

[KYPack]

ND, I understand what you're talking about "wrong shouldering a DL" essentially to entice him into running himself out of the play, but I don't think that's the case with what the Packers are doing - and, if that's the case, then what they're attempting to do is unsound and doomed to continue to fail.

Based on what they've been doing so far in the preseason, I don't see where the back would even have the option to cut it back b/c the backside pursuit is coming down the line essentially unmolested. If the DL takes the proper angle the play is over, and the back will be lucky to get back to the LOS.

I'm very skeptical of this coaching staff.

Wist,

There are automatics, line calls, and backside plays to counter this.

Two things:

- it's totally possible they haven't installed all this to the young line.

- They are trying to stay vanilla in Pre-season and not unveil any of this before things get real in the regular season.

Just letting the D blow up the plays isn't in the program. It has to be inexperience or a strategy that is causing 'em to not make the adjustments.

That said, we should be running the counters and backside plays to get the guys experienced in making the adjustments.

I'm sure things are very vanilla at this point, but there's no rationale or excuse that can account for what I'm seeing on tape. They've been doing it consistently this preseason, and it's very unsound.

I'll go back and look at the tape and let you know where in the game is an example of what I'm talking about. I find it hard to believe that what I'm seeing on tape can be justified in any way. Sound, fundamental technique isn't rocket science - I don't see how it could be rationalized even on the basis of saying that the entire scheme hasn't been installed yet.

Unfortunately, I erased both ballgames, so I can't see what you are talking about. The runs have looked weak, but I didn't notice the "backside anomaly" yer talkin' about. There is no good reason for it. Those adjustments and calls must be made for the lead zone to work.

Many of the long gainers are the counter plays run after the D starts to over-adjust to the play side.

I'll watch for it & we'll pick up the discussion after Friday's game.

I expected Nutz to chime in. He's an old knuckle draggin' lineman.

[Terry]

Well, I can't comment on the schemes or the strategies, but under the presumption that they might be ok in theory, there is one small thing to think about that might be some comfort.

Bill Walsh's first two years with SF.

[Fritz]

Woodbuck!! I'm ashamed of you!! NOBODY scripts Brett Favre in his conferences. Even if they did, he's frankly just not that good an actor.

Hey, you saw "Something About Mary" too, didn't you?

[MJZiggy]

Yessir and that part was funny as hell. The one he was really good in was that old MasterCard commercial, but I only ever saw it once. I wish I could dig that one up on youtube or somewhere.

[Willard]

Wist, Colonel, ND:

I enjoyed your insights on whether or not our young OL will be able to do what the coaches are asking them to do. Here is an explanation from Coach Philbin describing what Moll was doing wrong regarding the lead zone scheme. Does this explanation seem reasonable to you guys?

In his second start, Moll probably played adequately. According to one scout, he was effective at times run-blocking at the point of attack and looked good picking up a linebacker on a blitz.
Moll, however, did have a glaring negative. On stretch plays away from him, he did a poor job two or three times getting in position on cut blocks designed to prevent his man from chasing down the runner from behind. Moll kept flopping at the nearest leg of the defensive tackle when his aiming point should have been the man's farthest leg.
"Really, from where he starts to where he ends up cutting the guy is about a 5-yard deal," Jagodzinski said. "That's why you've got to have guys that can move. We practice that every day because it's such a big part of what we do."
Moll should be fast enough to get in better position. What Philbin wants him to do is take another step or two before cutting.
"You've got to take the back half of your body and get it on his play-side half right above his knee," Philbin said. "That's all you've got to do. I don't know if there are any easy blocks but it's a doable block. Certainly it's not like asking them to take a 350-pound Sam Adams and take him seven yards that way."