Fire our new offensive coordinator - Clements

[pbmax]

PB, I think there is an issue with slower developing pass plays, and it has little to do with the depths of the routes. It has a lot to do with the schematic tools they give receivers to get open.

I haven't seen evidence of this. I have seen the reverse. The shorter routes in a particular play call are bypassed or ignored (variety of reasons) and the QB looks elsewhere.

The cause can be pressure, receiver not open, or QB looking away for reasons that are unclear.

That being said, I think the Packers are doing themselves no favors in the no huddle. If the plan isn't working, they seem UNable to audible to plays that the D is not prepared for. The pattern has been for the first drive to be promising but then after D adjustments, success seems to decrease.

What should be a scheme to force defenses into a bad matchup instead becomes a situation where the Packers cannot take advantage of the situation. In some cases because they can't run versus 6 or 7 in the box. Others, the pass play is well defended early and then pressure gets to the QB.

[Smidgeon]

Two things: The Packers have the slowest receivers and TE in the league, and are in the bottom 7 or 10 for slowest WRs. So they have no speed to work with right now.

Second, an article on Janis from GBPG makes me wonder at the exactness of Adams' routes. I'm assuming Cobb and Jones are consistent route runners having done it for years with success, but you get open with good routes regardless of speed, and right now, the ball isn't getting out. Makes me wonder if Rodgers isn't seeing the route discipline he needs to see to "throw a guy open."

[Rutnstrut]

Two things: The Packers have the slowest receivers and TE in the league, and are in the bottom 7 or 10 for slowest WRs. So they have no speed to work with right now.

Second, an article on Janis from GBPG makes me wonder at the exactness of Adams' routes. I'm assuming Cobb and Jones are consistent route runners having done it for years with success, but you get open with good routes regardless of speed, and right now, the ball isn't getting out. Makes me wonder if Rodgers isn't seeing the route discipline he needs to see to "throw a guy open."

I do think Rodgers is part of the "problem". He has to have a little faith in these guys, whether they have proven themselves to him or not.

[Patler]

I do think Rodgers is part of the "problem". He has to have a little faith in these guys, whether they have proven themselves to him or not.

Agreed. I don't know what actually goes on in practice, and what is said between Rodgers and the coaches, but some of the writers almost make it sound as if Rodgers has to give his approval before a receiver will play much. Even Rodgers' repeated comments about having to gain trust in them are getting tiring. At some point you simply have to play with whoever is on the roster, and make it work,

What would Rodgers do, and how would he play if they have a year like GB had a while back when they seemed to lose another WR every week, and it seemed like a new one was brought in every Monday?

[Pugger]

The only WR Rodgers seems to have little faith in is everybody's favorite Jeff Janis. If Jeff is screwing up on his routes and dropping balls in practice is it any wonder AR looks elsewhere during games? I do agree Rodgers isn't seeing his WRs like he has in the past. I hope this is only a temporary problem...

[Patler]

The only WR Rodgers seems to have little faith in is everybody's favorite Jeff Janis. If Jeff is screwing up on his routes and dropping balls in practice is it any wonder AR looks elsewhere during games? I do agree Rodgers isn't seeing his WRs like he has in the past. I hope this is only a temporary problem...

...and Abbrederis, and Adams last year except for a few games, and...... and ........... and.................

I wonder if you are magnifying Janis deficiencies, as the coaches and writers have said his hands are fine (so no "dropping balls in practice") and have said his understanding of the offense is fine. They even said his routes are fine. From what I have read recently, it makes me wonder just what the problem is? They allude to "consistency", without explaining in what.

Young players make mistakes that older players do not. Randall is playing a lot, makes a mistake and gets burned, but also makes a play to help out now and then.

Is Rodgers so interception paranoid that he can't accept an occasional route location mistake by Janis? How often does it happen? We don't know, is it once every 5 plays, 10 plays, 15 plays or what? No one is perfect, not even Rodgers who could have performed better last week and maybe even eeked out a tie in regulation that they didn't deserve. Maybe Cobb should have come back toward Rodgers scowling and pointing in disgust when he was wide open and Rodgers didn't get him the ball. The typical Rodgers gesture when a pass goes incomplete because a player breaks one way when Rodgers throws another way.

The offense needs revitalization. Going with what they have used has not worked well for a significant portion of the season. It might be time to take the good with the bad and see what players like Janis, Abbrederis and Backman can do in a game.

The roster is what it is, and the coaches and Rodgers have to use it the way it is. The cautious approach to using seems to be becoming more and more unsuccessful, so it might be time to throw caution to the wind every now and then and see what some of the less-than-perfect and inexperienced offensive parts can do.

[pbmax]

They have explained the consistency complaint; Van Pelt said it was consistency of depth on his routes. You may choose to buy that or not.

The West Coast offense has always relied on precision by a WR. It wasn't built on option routes like Infante's offense and Rodgers doesn't just heave passes toward the physically dominant specimens (only with Finley early might you find this). It used to be said it took three years to learn as a WR.

Rodgers accepted Cobb early despite his (still) non-precision routes. He advocated for Nelson when he was #3. He accepted a rookie last year in Adams and Jones before him. He praised Magical Abby in camp last year. I am baffled by complaints about this team not accepting young contributors who make mistakes considering the makeup of their offensive line.

Do the coaches occasionally over value experience (Bishop's case) versus playmaking? Yes, but that is a secondary feature of their depth chart. And fans and Rats have been wrong (Zombo/Jones/Walden/So'oto/Obiozor versus dumping Nick Perry) more often than right (Bishop) when screaming for backups to enter the game.

But look at it from the coaches point of view. The scramble offense clearly suits Janis's talents as is. Do you think Bennett's and Clement's game play says Spider 2Y Banana Rodgers scrambles for life and throws on the run?

I don't think its personnel. Its scheme and play choice. This has all happened before. See the 2009 offense.

[Patler]

I am baffled by complaints about this team not accepting young contributors who make mistakes considering the makeup of their offensive line.

I have said just the opposite, they seem willing to take the good with the bad and play rookies at other positions, except WR & TE. I used Randall as my example. That is why I wonder if they are giving in too much to Rodgers' "comfort level" with receivers.

In two preseasons, Janis has done nothing but make plays when he has the ball. In the regular season, he has done nothing but make plays when he has the ball. I think it is time for the coaches and Rodgers to figure out how to get the ball in his hands a couple times a game, and see what he can do with it. Maybe it will be nothing, but the have little to use trying to find out.

Bringing Janis in motion, then keeping him in to block seems like misuse of his greatest attributes.

[pbmax]

I think they HAVE lived with very young WRs before (Adams, Cobb, Jones and Abby praise then concussion). I don't think something new is happening this year. Janis' demonstrated talents not lend themselves to the currently designed offense.

And while I expect M3 to design some Janis plays eventually, I don't think they only person resisting putting Janis out there is Rodgers. Assuming the depth quote is true, I think the coaches have reservations. I grant that the quote might be baloney.

But a team that promoted Adams ahead of the offseason darling Boykin is not afraid of rookie WR. They seem to be afraid of this rookie. Abby just had no camp.

[Patler]

They have explained the consistency complaint; Van Pelt said it was consistency of depth on his routes. You may choose to buy that or not.

Yes and no. It's not a problem of believing or not, it's filling in all of the blanks. Per the GBPG article both Bennett and Van Pelt said he knows his assignments, can function in the no huddle, and catches the ball, but when pressed mentioned route depth. But, per Van Pelt, “The big thing is just being on the same page as the quarterback. He needs to gain Aaron’s trust more and more every day, and that starts in practice.”

So, is the problem really Janis' or Rodgers? Cobb is a broken play specialist who as of last year (per either JSO or GBPG, don't remember which) had minimal impact on designed plays. I don't see that having changed this year. Finley never did learn to run routes well. But Rodgers has found ways to accept both. Is he expecting perfection from Janis, when maybe imperfections and all Janis could give the offense the spark it needs? Is he expecting Janis to be Nelson-II, instead of just accepting him as Janis-I ?

The West Coast offense has always relied on precision by a WR. It wasn't built on option routes like Infante's offense and Rodgers doesn't just heave passes toward the physically dominant specimens (only with Finley early might you find this). It used to be said it took three years to learn as a WR.

Rodgers accepted Cobb early despite his (still) non-precision routes. He advocated for Nelson when he was #3. He accepted a rookie last year in Adams and Jones before him. He praised Magical Abby in camp last year. I am baffled by complaints about this team not accepting young contributors who make mistakes considering the makeup of their offensive line.

Rodgers was firmly planted on the bench when James Jones came in as a rookie and had 47 receptions for 600+ yards. Apparently, Favre didn't need to be so "comfortable" with his receivers.

Rodgers didn't advocate for Nelson until Nelson had been around a few years. Nelson was more the #4 to Jennings, Driver and Jones until Jones couldn't catch the deep sideline routes that Rodgers loves to throw. That didn't happen until Nelson's third season.

Rodgers has been talking up Adams this year, but really did not go to him much last year except in a couple games. Adams had stretches of minimal impact. 24 of his 38 receptions came in just 4 games. Granted, Nelson+Cobb+Rodgers was on fire last season. Face it, Adams really had no competition last year for #3 after Jones left and Boykin failed miserably. Initially, Rodgers was in Boykin's camp.

[Harlan Huckleby]

And while I expect M3 to design some Janis plays eventually

Be still my beating heart!

I expect to get laid again with a hot young women. Eventually. Not rushing into it, biding my time.

[denverYooper]

Doug Farrar @SI_DougFarrar 11m11 minutes ago
IMO, "simplifying" Green Bay's offense won't solve a broken passing game. Here's what I saw. http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/10/all...-mike-mccarthy …

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball 7m7 minutes ago
@SI_DougFarrar Agree with your diagnosis but not sure with all of your cure. Don't think they need more plays, but they are in no man's land

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball 6m6 minutes ago
@SI_DougFarrar with limited formations and not much tempo and no run game, which hurts PA and packaged play stuff. Either need to speed up

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball 5m5 minutes ago
@SI_DougFarrar or go more Martz era St Louis Rams in sense of lots of shifts and motions, especially to free these pedestrian wideouts

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball 5m5 minutes ago
@SI_DougFarrar but the route concepts look generally fine, they just need to dress them up and get free releases as you mentionDoug Farrar @SI_DougFarrar 11m11 minutes ago
IMO, "simplifying" Green Bay's offense won't solve a broken passing game. Here's what I saw. http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/10/all...-mike-mccarthy …

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball 7m7 minutes ago
@SI_DougFarrar Agree with your diagnosis but not sure with all of your cure. Don't think they need more plays, but they are in no man's land

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball 6m6 minutes ago
@SI_DougFarrar with limited formations and not much tempo and no run game, which hurts PA and packaged play stuff. Either need to speed up

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball 5m5 minutes ago
@SI_DougFarrar or go more Martz era St Louis Rams in sense of lots of shifts and motions, especially to free these pedestrian wideouts

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball 5m5 minutes ago
@SI_DougFarrar but the route concepts look generally fine, they just need to dress them up and get free releases as you mention

[Patler]

I think they HAVE lived with very young WRs before (Adams, Cobb, Jones and Abby praise then concussion). I don't think something new is happening this year. Janis' demonstrated talents not lend themselves to the currently designed offense.

And while I expect M3 to design some Janis plays eventually, I don't think they only person resisting putting Janis out there is Rodgers. Assuming the depth quote is true, I think the coaches have reservations. I grant that the quote might be baloney.

But a team that promoted Adams ahead of the offseason darling Boykin is not afraid of rookie WR. They seem to be afraid of this rookie. Abby just had no camp.

Jones was with Favre as a rookie, and played due to an injury riddled receiving group. And again, that was with Favre..
Cobb didn't do a lot as a rookie WR, did his second year however.
Abbrederis got a positive comment for two days of camp work - doesn't mean much.

Adams wasn't promoted ahead of Boykins as much as Boykins gave it away. Boyknins was awful for three games when he was ahead of Adams, then was hurt and didn't play for three more. He wasn't any better when he got back. Adams had no competition last year for #3. Essentially, he moved ahead of a guy who was cut by Carolina this year and now can't find a job.

Rookie WRs who have figured significantly in the offense have been there due to attrition more than anything else. I look at Janis as being a year behind many of the rookies they brought in other years, just due to his background. I'm not suggesting he will be a saviour, but what they have been doing so far this year hasn't been working all that well. Sometimes in all sports a spark comes not from a better player, but from a player that offers something different than those who have been playing.

Janis might fail miserably; but I think it might be time to find out.

[pbmax]

Be still my beating heart!

I expect to get laid again with a hot young women. Eventually. Not rushing into it, biding my time.

Like Janis' odds better.

[Teamcheez1]

Two things: The Packers have the slowest receivers and TE in the league, and are in the bottom 7 or 10 for slowest WRs. So they have no speed to work with right now.

Second, an article on Janis from GBPG makes me wonder at the exactness of Adams' routes. I'm assuming Cobb and Jones are consistent route runners having done it for years with success, but you get open with good routes regardless of speed, and right now, the ball isn't getting out. Makes me wonder if Rodgers isn't seeing the route discipline he needs to see to "throw a guy open."

Isn't New England the second slowest in the league (with a ragtag offensive line to boot)? Somehow they find a way to make it work.