#52, Terrible Middle Linebacker

[red]

That brings up another question, for the first time in a number of weeks, I don't recall hearing Datone Jones name mentioned. I listened to more than watched the game. How did he play?

or mike neal

is he even still on the team?

[smuggler]

Putting those long runs on HaHa would not be a fair assessment of those plays.

The Cowpokes have the best oline in the league, that's why Daniels and Datone had quiet games.

[gbgary]

he's good now and is only going to get better at ilb. how many games at ilb has he had...20?

[mraynrand]

Putting those long runs on HaHa would not be a fair assessment of those plays.

The Cowpokes have the best oline in the league, that's why Daniels and Datone had quiet games.

at least one - the one PB mentioned. That was pretty bad by HCD.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Jake Ryan looked worse than AJ Hawk yesterday.

I thought so too. It's not that he was blocked, he seemed to wait for plays to come to him, and by the time he reacted the runner made a cut and was passing him by.

[red]

yeah, its not looking great for ryan, and its sad that we suck so bad at ILB that we have to waste clay there

thats all on TT

[Smidgeon]

or mike neal

is he even still on the team?

Yep. He was mentioned too. He was jawing with La'el Collins after Elliot's sack.

[Smidgeon]

Putting those long runs on HaHa would not be a fair assessment of those plays.

The Cowpokes have the best oline in the league, that's why Daniels and Datone had quiet games.

Which run was it where HHCD got flattened by an offensive lineman block but still popped up, ran down the runner, and made the tackle? Reminded me of a play before Nick Collins broke out where he chased a guy down after everyone else had given up/were too slow. HHCD was blocked to the ground and still saved the TD.

[pbmax]

Which run was it where HHCD got flattened by an offensive lineman block but still popped up, ran down the runner, and made the tackle? Reminded me of a play before Nick Collins broke out where he chased a guy down after everyone else had given up/were too slow. HHCD was blocked to the ground and still saved the TD.

That was the big run to the Dallas O left in the second half. The kid who was named as wanted for questioning (even though he was not seen as a suspect) in a crime involving his girlfriend a week before the draft, Collins, was the O lineman trucking down the sideline faster than McFadden. I think he was the one who got Collins.

[Pugger]

I don't know what happened on the long runs - I would tend to blame Clinton-Dix more than anybody else. IMO, one of the best moves they've made in recent history was moving Clay inside. It seemed to me his blitzing from the inside, combined with faking the blitz and doing a fairly good job in coverage very much outweighed the run problems. I would tend to chalk up the being out of position at times to the kind of D they were running rather than Matthews' mistakes or lack of instinct, and it seemed like there should have been safety help covering for him.

On that first long run by Dallas Ha Ha either fell down or was knocked down but Dix got up and ran down the runner before he could score. A couple of plays later Sam got the INT.

I''m glad the girls stupidly abandoned the run yesterday and tried to get Cassel to win it for them.

Edit: Well, I don't recall which play it was but Ha Ha did prevent McFadden from scoring.

[Pugger]

yeah, its not looking great for ryan, and its sad that we suck so bad at ILB that we have to waste clay there

thats all on TT

Ryan is a rookie so I'm gonna give him a pass. Lets see how he plays going forward.

[Deputy Nutz]

Perhaps. But the run D has improved. And Matthews isn't the first Packer ILB to fail to get to the outside on a run. Hawk was too slow or injured. Jones reacted too slowly.

Matthews shares something with Bishop, in that both tend to get sucked inside and are delayed getting outside. Matthews, however, has the speed to correct it.

Packers did miss Perry out on the edge. I would love to have another run stuffer in the middle in addition to Ryan and then play Matthews wherever Capers pleases.

It is not about the speed to get to the outside, its about being able to read the offensive line and slide from backside to playside to shut down the cut back lane. It is something inside linebackers have been coached to do since grade school. It has to do with instincts but instincts that have been coached up over time. Even long time ILB struggle with it, Jake Ryan for example struggled on Sunday with it. It is the ability to recognize the play through the chaos in the middle.

My point is that when you run a 3-4 defense you need viable linebackers at each position, thats why you run the defense to get 4 good linebackers on the field. The middle men need to occupy the box from tackle to tackle, not run around from sideline to sideline. Historically Dom has always had big boned pluggers at inside linebackers, just not in Green Bay which has been an issue in Green Bay. Clay is a perfect outside linebacker, and has no business playing inside. Mass in the middle, and speed on the outside. You need linebackers in the middle that can take on blocks and hold their ground and scrape to the gap.

[Deputy Nutz]

I guess my point is that if you want to get the most bang for your buck with Mathews you need to play him at outside and sprinkle him inside from time to time. I respect the fact that he has made the move without complaining but I would imagine it has to be frustrating for him. This season the Packers have to keep him in the middle but if the front office doesn't address the position this off season so that Clay can go back to the outside than the Packers are making a terrible mistake.

[Pugger]

ILB has been a weakness for a while now so TT better address that position along with TE in the next draft. Clay's talents are being squandered in the middle.

[pbmax]

I don't see size versus speed in the box as the issue as much as wrong gap choice. I agree that speed to the outside might be secondary for an ILB in base normally, but with the Packer defense as currently constituted they need his support wide. Often from the back side. In the nickel and dime you have to be able to cover ground. There just aren't enough players getting to the ball at times.

I am not sure I saw a cut back problem Sunday. Two big plays were wide runs (the left looked off tackle, the right looked like it might have been wide). The run up the middle Mathews guessed wrong (he was play side). That is not to say he has ILB instincts. Half of the plays he makes, he makes by correcting his first move mistake (like one of his sacks) with a second effort. So his gift in the middle is size and quickness and motor, not instincts.

I don't have a good feel for Ryan yet, except that he finds the ball in the run game better than Palmer. He seems lost in coverages of bunched WR.

I agree that normally the money is better spent on pass rush, in Matthews case, from the outside. And the Packer pass rush has disappeared at times. But given the struggles of last year, the defense is better with him in the middle right now. Possibly not how you want to spend the money in the future, but they need another ILB then.