Another season goes by the boards, Rodgers another year older...

[wist43]

So 2015 is all-but done, looking forward to next year...

Of course no one will be fired... "we'll get that fixed". TT will proceed at his turtle pace... we will be good, but not good enough in 2016.

-------------------------------------------------------

I thought we had the talent to win it all at the beginning of the year - the question to me was going to be coaching. The coaching has been average at best, and it is obvious we are not in the same league as the upper-tier teams. Carolina, Arizona, and Seattle are all much better than we are. In the AFC, NE, Denver, Cincy, and Pittsburgh are all much better than we are...

We are quite a ways down the ladder, and given TT's approach, we won't close that gap in 2016.

The future looks like 9-7, and being an easy out in playoffs for the foreseeable future.

[Rutnstrut]

I got blasted a few years ago on this forum for stating the exact same thing. I said TT and stubby are happy with the status quo, and winning the division and getting to the playoffs are good enough. Of course the kool-aid drinkers bring up the 2010 season and the injuries and...

[TravisWilliams23]

It doesn't look good right now. Since the bye week it seemed every game, save Minny, has been a bang your head against the wall asking WTF is going on out here. They aren't cleaning up the mess we see week in- week out.

TT and Stubby know their jobs are on the line and the only real goal is a SB title. When you try to convince me they're happy with just winning the div and getting to the playoffs, I tend to dismiss your post as counter-kool-aid.

Fact: Losing Jordy was a HUGE blow to the offense this year. Adams doesn't belong on the field right now but who's really better on the bench? That 2010 team had a in-his-prime Greg Jennings, budding star Jordy and pretty decent Finley with a decent JJ at the receiver positions. No comparison to todays wide outs by a mile. I can understand Arod having an off year because of the lack of talent there. The O-line is a mess. Those are real problems that you have to consider if you're being honest in assessing this years team.

The Pats don't look good without Gronk and Ammendola and Eddleman. The Steelers don't look good without Big Ben, Cincy isn't going anywhere without Dalton. Arizona and Carolina have remained pretty healthy and Seattle is beatable because of some key players lost to injury and free agency. It happens. I'm sure the Packers brass will take a look at the coaches after the season and perhaps demand TT make a coaching change IF they believe that's the problem.

At this point in time, they have to beat Minny next week to get the home field for one game. Then, I really don't have any confidence they'll go any further because that's just the way this season has gone. There isn't any magic pill they can take to fix this. They just aren't a championship caliber team with the players left. That's a fact.

[call_me_ishmael]

No one will be fired? We've already seen someone "fired" without being let go midseason. What are the odds the offensive coaching staff is brought back as is? I highly doubt the people demoted will just be okay being demoted. Then again - maybe they can't find a better job. I would not be shocked if Clements and Bennett are both gone and Philbin is back as OC. I would be shocked if both Clements and Bennett are back as there isn't room for both in my opinion.

It is clear the talent is not good enough this year. Players are another year older and slower in key spots.

- Josh Sitton does not look like the best guard is the league anymore.
- Bryan Bulaga cannot stay healthy. Not sure that contract was a good idea then and less convinced now.
- Randall Cobb has been exposed. He's not a top-tier talent.
- Davante Adams lost all confidence and has been exposed as way too slow. Maybe he bulked up too much?

The Packers will "blow up" the receiving corps. By that, I mean draft two guys in the first five of the draft. No way they let Adams go even though he was complete trash. I highly doubt Abby and Janis will be back. I don't know what FA TE's will be available but I could see TT dabbling here (I know, I know).

Bottom line - you aren't going to beat a top tier pass rush with 3-4 starting OL (and good players at that, not journeymen) on the bench. It's easy to overreact after a butt whooping, but let's be real - the Cardinals are probably the best team in the NFL. Who doesn't think they beat the Panthers even on the road?

There is a ZERO percent chance (in my opinion) that MM is let go. You guys are nuts if you don't think he is a premier coach and would have his coach of several head coaching jobs. Beyond his talent and what he brings to the table, that just isn't the Packer way. GB employees almost always have an opportunity to turn it around. But realistically - they're going to be 11-5, what needs to be turned around? That's a pretty good year.

[Bossman641]

No one will be fired? We've already seen someone "fired" without being let go midseason. What are the odds the offensive coaching staff is brought back as is? I highly doubt the people demoted will just be okay being demoted. Then again - maybe they can't find a better job. I would not be shocked if Clements and Bennett are both gone and Philbin is back as OC. I would be shocked if both Clements and Bennett are back as there isn't room for both in my opinion.

It is clear the talent is not good enough this year. Players are another year older and slower in key spots.

- Josh Sitton does not look like the best guard is the league anymore.
- Bryan Bulaga cannot stay healthy. Not sure that contract was a good idea then and less convinced now.
- Randall Cobb has been exposed. He's not a top-tier talent.
- Davante Adams lost all confidence and has been exposed as way too slow. Maybe he bulked up too much?

The Packers will "blow up" the receiving corps. By that, I mean draft two guys in the first five of the draft. No way they let Adams go even though he was complete trash. I highly doubt Abby and Janis will be back. I don't know what FA TE's will be available but I could see TT dabbling here (I know, I know).

Bottom line - you aren't going to beat a top tier pass rush with 3-4 starting OL (and good players at that, not journeymen) on the bench. It's easy to overreact after a butt whooping, but let's be real - the Cardinals are probably the best team in the NFL. Who doesn't think they beat the Panthers even on the road?

There is a ZERO percent chance (in my opinion) that MM is let go. You guys are nuts if you don't think he is a premier coach and would have his coach of several head coaching jobs. Beyond his talent and what he brings to the table, that just isn't the Packer way. GB employees almost always have an opportunity to turn it around. But realistically - they're going to be 11-5, what needs to be turned around? That's a pretty good year.

Good take.

[Rutnstrut]

There is NOTHING realistic about this team going 11-5. If you think next week against the Vikes is a given, you better think again. Mn is playing much better football right now than GB.

[ThunderDan]

There is NOTHING realistic about this team going 11-5. If you think next week against the Vikes is a given, you better think again. Mn is playing much better football right now than GB.

They are playing at home against the Giants who have obviously mailed in the season after being eliminated from the playoffs.

[pbmax]

Bennett is viewed pretty favorably. Even if he has Peter Principled out of a job, the Packers will want him to stick around.

Patter might be right that Clements might not think so highly of the situation now that he has been demoted. However, the failure of the offense to improve much helps make him look less culpable.

The entire no huddle requires a rethink or a compete retooling of WRs.

[call_me_ishmael]

The things that I am struggling to process are:

1. Last year we saw a gimpy Rodgers rarely get touched. The OL built a wall around him. What has happened this year? How much of are issues are receivers not getting opening versus QB/WR not having any time? I recognize that there are injuries. I viewed the Packer OL as the #1 unit in the league towards the end of last season and in the playoffs. They have looked pretty darn bad lately and possibly as far back as the buy?

2. What the heck happened to Davante Adams? Last year he was a budding star. During the off-season, he was phrased as a breakout player in the OTAs. Right now, he seems to be struggling to get any separation (I perceive, I could be wrong). I also perceive that he is really struggling to catch the ball. Were drops an issue last year for him? I don't perceive that but I don't have the info either. What has changed for him? If it just confidence, did he bulk up and lose some speed, etc? What changed? Is there any chance he can bounce back into the promising player Rodgers once described as a pro-bowl type talent?

3. Will HHCD take the next step forward? He has looked like just-a-guy to me this year. Last year, to me he looked like a very promising player who was a a little seasoning away from being a superstar type talent. What happened to him? Just a sophomore slump? Has he been solid-but-not-spectacular and thus not standing out one way or another? Is his future still very bright and a future superstar?

4. Who are the new faces next year? I perceive that lots of the guys with expiring contracts are just that - guys. Any number of them could be brought back at a modest price (Nick Perry, Casey Hayward, Mike Neal, etc). Will they be? Who is next to step into those spots? If they guys are not playing very well and have some glaring negative (oft-injured, etc), will they be back? My gut says Casey Hayward ends up back here if he doesn't get a big deal. I like his body language and the way he interacts with his peers during a game, and I perceive that he has turned it around a bit as of late. I also can't see Nick Perry leaving for some reason.

5. Why are teams suddenly playing us differently? A few years back, teams would sit back in a zone and let Aaron struggle to find an open option against deep safeties providing extra cover. I perceive the Packers really struggling with this for awhile. Now, teams have switched to playing a different style against them. Does this mean the offense, talent and experience evolved to beat the deep zone coverage? What does that say about the press coverage that teams are playing today? Clearly what they teams are doing in terms of coverage is working, so how do we evolve to beat it? Are we seeing other high-powered offenses covered in a similar way? If not, why not? What attributes do those teams possess that the Packers don't that prevent them from being covered in such a way.

[ThunderDan]

HHCD hasn't been great but has been a solid starter. He has 30+ more tackles than the next player on the team.

[pbmax]

Teams used to sit back in Cover 2, but the most successful played man under that safety look, not zone. He has routinely torched zones. His limited TEs and Cobb struggle versus man but are much better at setting up in a zone.

The exception was the Seahawks, who mainly play single high safety (Earl Thomas) and drop the corners into Cover 3.

[call_me_ishmael]

Teams used to sit back in Cover 2, but the most successful played man under that safety look, not zone. He has routinely torched zones. His limited TEs and Cobb struggle versus man but are much better at setting up in a zone.

The exception was the Seahawks, who mainly play single high safety (Earl Thomas) and drop the corners into Cover 3.

So are you saying teams aren't really playing us that differently and that it is a talent/schematic issue on offense? Legitimate question.

[Rutnstrut]

These are all issues that a good coaching staff should be taking care of.

[pbmax]

So are you saying teams aren't really playing us that differently and that it is a talent/schematic issue on offense? Legitimate question.

They are playing more press man than before, which is to stop the short passing game. And the Packers don't have Nelson to blow the top off that defense. And Adams hasn't been able to either replace him or work the middle of the field that this would normally open up. They put the best cover guy on Coob or double him and its asphyxiating. This would also be helped by a killer TE.

Being in press man makes then vulnerable to Rodgers running. So some teams rushed with five, not so much a pass blitz as a QB lane clogging blitz. Rodgers in the pocket is such a mess now that it almost doesn't matter. Though oddly, he looked more comfortable running versus the Cardinals than he had in a long time.

Teams then tended to move to single high safety because after success of press man, they are less worried about passing and more worried about the run.

[beveaux1]

No one will be fired? We've already seen someone "fired" without being let go midseason. What are the odds the offensive coaching staff is brought back as is? I highly doubt the people demoted will just be okay being demoted. Then again - maybe they can't find a better job. I would not be shocked if Clements and Bennett are both gone and Philbin is back as OC. I would be shocked if both Clements and Bennett are back as there isn't room for both in my opinion.

It is clear the talent is not good enough this year. Players are another year older and slower in key spots.

- Josh Sitton does not look like the best guard is the league anymore.
- Bryan Bulaga cannot stay healthy. Not sure that contract was a good idea then and less convinced now.
- Randall Cobb has been exposed. He's not a top-tier talent.
- Davante Adams lost all confidence and has been exposed as way too slow. Maybe he bulked up too much?

The Packers will "blow up" the receiving corps. By that, I mean draft two guys in the first five of the draft. No way they let Adams go even though he was complete trash. I highly doubt Abby and Janis will be back. I don't know what FA TE's will be available but I could see TT dabbling here (I know, I know).

Bottom line - you aren't going to beat a top tier pass rush with 3-4 starting OL (and good players at that, not journeymen) on the bench. It's easy to overreact after a butt whooping, but let's be real - the Cardinals are probably the best team in the NFL. Who doesn't think they beat the Panthers even on the road?

There is a ZERO percent chance (in my opinion) that MM is let go. You guys are nuts if you don't think he is a premier coach and would have his coach of several head coaching jobs. Beyond his talent and what he brings to the table, that just isn't the Packer way. GB employees almost always have an opportunity to turn it around. But realistically - they're going to be 11-5, what needs to be turned around? That's a pretty good year.

I agree with this. You've pointed out the mistakes made in the past off seasons - Bulaga and Cobb, but I know that I was in favor of re-signing both of them. Without them, we did not have a decent RT or a 2nd WR threat. I knew that Bulaga had a lot of trouble staying healthy, but developing another tackle was too high a risk. Cobb has been exposed without the threat of Nelson. He's just not a #1, certainly not worth the money he's being paid. I think with Nelson, his value as an all-purpose receiver, runner, and returner, would not be questioned.

What I have trouble with is the reality of what a GM can do to put us in the super bowl. Get a free agent TE, get a free agent WR, draft more OTs, sign free agent OTs, or draft a TE. At the end of last year, we knew we needed to strengthen the defense and the STs. Look at the rookies we drafted, they filled these needs pretty well. By the time we needed a WR when Nelson went down, we acquired Jones as a free agent. I thought that was a pretty good move. The reality is that there is not unlimited cap space. If there was, there would be more teams like the 1992 Cowboys. Look around the league at the number of teams that need OTs. There isn't an endless supply and Barclay had filled in as a starter for a season in the past. Even a year removed from injury, it was reasonable to believe he would be adequate as the season wore on. He hasn't been. R Rodgers was coming off a decent rookie year, one in which he beat out Quarles for the starting job. Again, it was reasonable to believe that he would get better and that we didn't need to look for another TE. He's been very spotty and we lost Quarless 3 games into the season. This left us with no real back up, but it was reasonable to think that those two would be fine for the season with young guys getting ST reps.

Nobody has OL depth in which 2 or 3 starters go down without any effect on the offense. Yet, there have been many games that at least 1 starter was out and a few when 2 or 3 starters went down during the game. Who's to blame for these problems?

A reasonable person would say that a team with this many offensive problems should not have won 10 games. I don't think we would have won this many games if the league was not as relatively weak as it is. I also think that MM has no chance of being let go for that very reason. I also think that this year proves that our QB is not the team. He needs protection and weapons. He hasn't really been blessed with either this year.