Another possible reason for Arod's struggles this year

[Patler]

Rodgers had everyone they wanted back from 2014 except Nelson. For Nelson, they found Jones, who AR played with for years. Sure, some were dinged up at times, but mostly they played. Not like the year when they went through something like 10 or 11 WRs. The only change from the start of the year in 2015 was losing Montgomery, a rookie.

[mraynrand]

Rodgers had everyone they wanted back from 2014 except Nelson. For Nelson, they found Jones, who AR played with for years. Sure, some were dinged up at times, but mostly they played. Not like the year when they went through something like 10 or 11 WRs. The only change from the start of the year in 2015 was losing Montgomery, a rookie.

I'm kind of astonished by this. I never saw you as a fiction writer.

[Patler]

They wanted Cobb from 2014, they had Cobb in 2015.
They wanted Adams from 2014, they had Adams in 2015.
They wanted Abbrederis from 2014, they had Abbrederis in 2015.
They wanted Janis from 2014, they had Janis in 2015.
They wanted Nelson from 2014, they did not have Nelson in 2015.

They only returning WR they lost was Nelson. Replacing him with Jones was helpful in that there was familiarity between Jones and AR, and with Jones and the offense. That was evident from the first game of the season.

Yes, it would have been nice to have Montgomery, but he was a rookie, so losing him was not a change from 2014.

Pro athletes are hurt all the time, but if they are well enough to play, and start, the excuse (if any) is small.

[mraynrand]

Pro athletes are hurt all the time, but if they are well enough to play, and start, the excuse (if any) is small.

well, that's the point really. Did the injuries have an impact or not? You seem to think their impact was minimal. I disagree.

[dsilby]

They wanted Cobb from 2014, they had Cobb in 2015.
They wanted Adams from 2014, they had Adams in 2015.
They wanted Abbrederis from 2014, they had Abbrederis in 2015.
They wanted Janis from 2014, they had Janis in 2015.
They wanted Nelson from 2014, they did not have Nelson in 2015.

They only returning WR they lost was Nelson. Replacing him with Jones was helpful in that there was familiarity between Jones and AR, and with Jones and the offense. That was evident from the first game of the season.

Yes, it would have been nice to have Montgomery, but he was a rookie, so losing him was not a change from 2014.

Pro athletes are hurt all the time, but if they are well enough to play, and start, the excuse (if any) is small.

James Jones and Jordy Nelson are not even in the same conversation. You can not compare a top 5 receiver in the NFL to a guy who couldn't even find a roster spot in the NFL. You're completely under valuing what Jordy brings to the team.
Jordy would take the top off a defense having them drop 2 safeties back and 1 always shading towards Jordy's side. That is attention Jones would never see. Jones would get locked up by 1 corner and that's all. Jordy on the field alone makes all the other receives better.
Jordy on the field would have defenses play more 7 man fronts that opens up the run game further where with Jones, defenses could play 8 up front since Jones could get locked up by one guy.
The loss of Jordy was huge, more so than even I thought at the beginning of the season.

[Patler]

James Jones and Jordy Nelson are not even in the same conversation. You can not compare a top 5 receiver in the NFL to a guy who couldn't even find a roster spot in the NFL. You're completely under valuing what Jordy brings to the team.
Jordy would take the top off a defense having them drop 2 safeties back and 1 always shading towards Jordy's side. That is attention Jones would never see. Jones would get locked up by 1 corner and that's all. Jordy on the field alone makes all the other receives better.
Jordy on the field would have defenses play more 7 man fronts that opens up the run game further where with Jones, defenses could play 8 up front since Jones could get locked up by one guy.
The loss of Jordy was huge, more so than even I thought at the beginning of the season.

I did not compare Jones to Nelson. I didn't compare anyone to Nelson. I did compare Jones to replacing Nelson with a guy off the street who didn't know the offense or AR. It was better to have Jones than, for example, Taco Wallace who they had to bring in the year they replaced the WR roster once over plus.

Losing Nelson was significant, but it wasn't the sole reason the passing offense was so bad. Rodgers had a lot to do with it too. Especially if he was the reason Janis and/or Abbrederis saw so little playing time.

[Patler]

well, that's the point really. Did the injuries have an impact or not? You seem to think their impact was minimal. I disagree.

I don't think injuries were the primary factor in the downturn of the passing game. When players practice and play, their injuries are not a significant excuse.

Rodgers got the majority of credit when the offense was so good. Best in the league, future HOFer, etc. If that was deserved, and I believe it was, he also has to shoulder blame for 2015.

[mraynrand]

I don't think injuries were the primary factor in the downturn of the passing game.

really? wow

[Patler]

I don't think injuries were the primary factor in the downturn of the passing game. When players practice and play, their injuries are not a significant excuse.

really? wow

Unless AR's knee was affecting his accuracy (which it might have), his vision (which it didn't) and his willingness to allow Janis and Abbrederis to be on the field with him (if he really did influence those decisions.)

[Patler]

Did the injuries have an impact or not? You seem to think their impact was minimal. I disagree.

Take heart, better men than you have made that mistake, too; disagreeing with me.

Probably a good opportunity for a little introspection on your part.
Why are you making this grievous error?
How could you be so wrong?

If you put in the work, it will make you a better person.

Either that, or just wait until I give my opinion, then copy it. I don't mind.

[George Cumby]

Rodgers was off last year.
There is no doubt.
Fans shed tears,
They scream and shout.

"Why, why, why?"
Was it his knee?
Did the receivers not try?
Was it me? Oh me, oh my.

Why the sneers?
Why the grimace?
Is he a leader?
Or just a menace?

The answer is plain,
I tell you, my son.
It gives me great pain
To say "Olivia Munn".

[mraynrand]

Unless AR's knee was affecting his accuracy (which it might have), his vision (which it didn't) and his willingness to allow Janis and Abbrederis to be on the field with him (if he really did influence those decisions.)

I think
1) You're giving these two roster-bottom scrapers more credit than they're due. Possibly they develop into more than 3s or 4s or 5s, but likely not. Even if they do, they were pretty green in 2015 (and Abby was missing time too).
2) Maybe 'ol mishappen-calf/knee ache man wasn't driving the decision whether these mega-stud WRs were on the field. Maybe it was 'ol gravity well Stubby
3) Maybe all the other crap like injured O-line, Fat Lacy that we've discussed ad naseum actually had an effect on Rodgers or just had an effect on the offense and Rodgers just couldn't lose weight for Lacy or heal the wounded sick and lame with His Word.
4) Rodgers had a down year - there's no doubt about it

My conclusion: The WR injuries, O-line problems and Fat Lacy were all factors that collectively hurt the offense far more than Rodger's reduced accuracy and vision. And I swore I was going to focus on Rodger's likely poor play in 2016 instead of 2015. So much for my integrity.

[Upnorth]

I did not compare Jones to Nelson. I didn't compare anyone to Nelson. I did compare Jones to replacing Nelson with a guy off the street who didn't know the offense or AR. It was better to have Jones than, for example, Taco Wallace who they had to bring in the year they replaced the WR roster once over plus.

Losing Nelson was significant, but it wasn't the sole reason the passing offense was so bad. Rodgers had a lot to do with it too. Especially if he was the reason Janis and/or Abbrederis saw so little playing time.

Loosing Nelson hurt. Having Cobbs shoulder banged up hurt. Having those two limited gave us no starting wr's. I the oline and you have a down year. I expect a bounce back. I hope I'm right.

[Upnorth]

Take heart, better men than you have made that mistake, too; disagreeing with me.

Probably a good opportunity for a little introspection on your part.
Why are you making this grievous error?
How could you be so wrong?

If you put in the work, it will make you a better person.

Either that, or just wait until I give my opinion, then copy it. I don't mind.

I think part of the blame lies at ARods feet, but much like a QB gets too much credit for wins by some they also get too much blame for losses by some. I hope, and believe you are currently in the last camp Patler. Feel free for an I told you so in January 2017 if you're right.

[Patler]

I think
1) You're giving these two roster-bottom scrapers more credit than they're due. Possibly they develop into more than 3s or 4s or 5s, but likely not. Even if they do, they were pretty green in 2015 (and Abby was missing time too).
2) Maybe 'ol mishappen-calf/knee ache man wasn't driving the decision whether these mega-stud WRs were on the field. Maybe it was 'ol gravity well Stubby
3) Maybe all the other crap like injured O-line, Fat Lacy that we've discussed ad naseum actually had an effect on Rodgers or just had an effect on the offense and Rodgers just couldn't lose weight for Lacy or heal the wounded sick and lame with His Word.
4) Rodgers had a down year - there's no doubt about it

My conclusion: The WR injuries, O-line problems and Fat Lacy were all factors that collectively hurt the offense far more than Rodger's reduced accuracy and vision. And I swore I was going to focus on Rodger's likely poor play in 2016 instead of 2015. So much for my integrity.

Re your #1) - not at all suggesting they are budding stars, but GB basically played with 3 WRs most of the year. Even if he wasn't perfect, Janis running fast down field could have helped change things up a little. Abbrederis catching a few passes now and then between concussions or other injuries could have changed things up a little. Having 4 WRs on the field a little more often could have changed things up a little, especially if it was someone who might take two steps after catching the ball before falling down, unlike RR.

Re your #2) - MM has not hesitated using rookies when they are needed, and these two weren't rookies. Over the years MM has given a lot of questionably talented WRs opportunities now and then, yet these two hardly saw the field in their second seasons. Brett Swain didn't see a lot of targets, but he played a lot as a 4th and even 5th WR. Were Ruvell Martin and Jarrett Boykin that much more talented than Abbrederis? or even Janis?

If Cobb, Adams and Jones were that limited by their injuries, wouldn't it have made sense to give Janis a chance now and then, or use Abbrederis more regularly?

Something was different about the use of Abbrederis and Janis this year than we saw in years past with WRs no more talented than these two.