Loyalty Test

[Packers4Ever]

Back to jumping ship etc...what really toasts me is hearing
our fans in the stands booing before halftime or whenever.
If that's a typical reaction to our guys then they belong at home!

2004 Monday night game against the Titans. Couldn't believe I witnessed Packer fans booing.

Yep - we heard 'em. Not frequently but a little
is enough. Just hope if things go really bad
this year, the new young guys won't think it's all
for them, it'll be for 2 other head honcho's...

[wpony]

I hate to say this some of the youngsters just have to be educated what packer pride and loyalty is all about remember they have never had a devine as a coach there worst was sherman and he was not that bad,they have never had a bad QB I mean think about it they are trying to say farve is old and washed up he was better than QBs we had for better than 10 yrs or so back before majik remeber the revolving doors at QB lets just try and be nice and do our best to try and show them what its like to be really packer backers GO PACK GO

[Rastak]

Back to jumping ship etc...what really toasts me is hearing
our fans in the stands booing before halftime or whenever.
If that's a typical reaction to our guys then they belong at home!

2004 Monday night game against the Titans. Couldn't believe I witnessed Packer fans booing.

And streaming out of the stadium by the thousands too.

[GrnBay007]

Back to jumping ship etc...what really toasts me is hearing
our fans in the stands booing before halftime or whenever.
If that's a typical reaction to our guys then they belong at home!

2004 Monday night game against the Titans. Couldn't believe I witnessed Packer fans booing.

And streaming out of the stadium by the thousands too.

I stayed till the bitter end.

Crazy night afterward though. lol

[pbmax]

0-16, not a problem. Climbing higher on the season ticket waiting list? OK by me.

Not that I advocate losing, mind you

[Mazzin]

Okay, I don't mind us going 0-16 but I honestly think we will fair a little better, and I will want TT's head (somewhat) But Mike is doing all he can with this P.O.S. offensive line that TT has built, but I do like TT finding Nick Collins, And Greg Jennings!

[Tony Oday]

I might not even want them tar and feathered

[RashanGary]

If you answer anything but 0-16, your not a fan of a team. You're a fan of football.

Packer fans are Packer fans. There is no jumping ship.

[the_idle_threat]

I hate to say this some of the youngsters just have to be educated what packer pride and loyalty is all about remember they have never had a devine as a coach there worst was sherman and he was not that bad,they have never had a bad QB I mean think about it they are trying to say Favre is old and washed up he was better than QBs we had for better than 10 yrs or so back before majik remeber the revolving doors at QB lets just try and be nice and do our best to try and show them what its like to be really packer backers GO PACK GO

This is an excellent post! I'm quoting it because I think people should read it twice.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And streaming out of the stadium by the thousands too.

Regular happenstance at Metrodome. It's shocking when it happens at Lambeau.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If you answer anything but 0-16, your not a fan of a team. You're a fan of football.

Packer fans are Packer fans. There is no jumping ship.

Maybe I misread the poll. This isn't really about Packer Loyalty. This is about loyalty to the GM or something, isn't it?

Tarlam, this was really a confusing poll. Not one of your better efforts.

[mraynrand]

I lived through the three word Forresstt Grregg press conferences ("You saw it") following terrible losses in the Metrodome with Randy Wright fainting in the huddle. I'll follow them round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give them up!

[CyclonePackFan]

I think for the most part (at least the people who care enough to post in a Packer forum) are gonna be die-hards. Hell, if you're a Brewer fan, I think it's established that you can handle watching poor teams Even if some of our fans are fair-weather, to hell with them, I'll get my season tickets sooner.

There are very few things that anger me more than people who leave a football game early

[Packers4Ever]

Back to jumping ship etc...what really toasts me is hearing
our fans in the stands booing before halftime or whenever.
If that's a typical reaction to our guys then they belong at home!

2004 Monday night game against the Titans. Couldn't believe I witnessed Packer fans booing.

And streaming out of the stadium by the thousands too.

I stayed till the bitter end.

Crazy night afterward though. lol

I would have stayed too, if I was ever lucky
enough to actually watch a game at Lambeau !
Hope the crazy night made up for it....

[Brainerd]

First I'll say that I agree with what you said to Joemailman. His comments were disrespectful to you. On the last bit, about playing not to lose, I agree with nbarnett56. My impression was almost that it was a situation out of his control - that the decision to play that way was not his. I dunno, of course, I wasn't there and I couldn't begin to say whether it was HE who played that way and meant that he had no choice because of the way the games went; or if he meant someone else was making the decisions; or if he's just plain ducking responsibility.

You both have points. Someone once said something to the effect that its a mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without necessarily accepting it. I think that quote reflects the position you and nbarnett56 have taken.

Here's what Packers.com has to say about New Orleans while MM was there as OC:

The following year, McCarthy began a successful five-year stint as the offensive coordinator of the New Orleans Saints. It became the most prolific offensive era in the team's four decades, as the Saints set 10 offensive team records and 25 individual marks.

Among the more notable accomplishments, the Saints led the NFC with 432 points and 49 touchdowns in 2002, both team records. In his first season in 2000, McCarthy was chosen NFC Assistant Coach of the Year by USA Today.

I knew he was with NO as OC but for some reason it came out in the previous post that I thought it was his first OC tenure. I meant to say that it was his first year with SF as OC. Which was on topic. However, I wrote it so I accepted the correction.

I would like to state again that I know MM isn't completely devoid of talent like Sanders and does deserve some time. He has earned it. I never said he didn't deserve a chance. MM attempts to innovate, Sanders is a copycat and a poor one at that.

But one thing has always bugged me about MM and I've never been able to shake it off. Even with all the statistical success that NO had during his tenure the team was dogged with one overriding label year after year. The label of underachievers.

Although there are exceptions, ie Hunt, an underachieving player is an undercoached player. A player treated as a commodity not a person. NO was a team of underachievers. Not a small handful of spoiled athletes.

Haslett and his staff, which included MM, took alot of heat for the team's lack of real success when on paper NO was full of talent. It eventually cost Haslett his job.

Still, all in all, there's no denying that the saints did much better in offensive team rankings (for yards) under McCarthy than they had the previous decade, especially the previous 5 years. In the previous 5 years, the saints only broke the top TWENTY once, but under MM, they never fell below 20th and they rose to the top ten three times. Right after he left, they fell to twentieth again, the worst they'd been since 1999, the year before MM arrived, when they were also 20th.

In rankings for points, under MM they were always in the top fifteen, two of those times in the top ten and one of those times in the top five (3rd). Right after he left, they dropped to 31st rank in points scored. And in the five years prior to MM, they were, dating backwards, 29th, 21st, 30th, 29th, 20th. But to be fair, only one of those years was under Mora as HC (Mora's last). Before that, going back for 5 years, all under Mora, they weren't half bad, floating around 10th, give or take one, for four of those five years.

Also to be fair, the years before MM included three under Ditka. But Ditka also destroyed their draft, so that would have had an impact on the first couple of years under MM, but he still fared pretty well. It's impossible to say whether the offensive success of the Saints during MM's time there was due more to MM or due to Haslett. We only have one year of Haslett since MM left, but certainly the offensive rankings for points and yards dropped pretty heavily that year (31st and 20th, respectively, in 2005).

All very encouraging.

I am nervous about it, especially since it was the defense I had the most confidence in prior to the preseason games and now it's the side of the ball that has me the most concerned. Besides special teams, that is.

I agree. Concerned is putting it mildly for me. If its the same defensive scheme and Sanders was promoted to DC for consistency then why are they playing so poorly in meaningless preseason games? You'd think it would be routine for them and they would be out there having fun not looking puzzled and confused on every third down.

I also have serious questions about Schottenheimer and Stock. It may be that MM will turn out to be a terrific HC, except for a glaring weakness in staff hiring - which would be huge, granted. If the Packers truly do suck this year, I'll be most interested in what happens to the coaching staff in the offseason. I think that will tell us something, quite aside from our usual analysis of playing talent.

For consistency's sake Schottenheimer or Stock will be promoted to DC assuming the worst happens this season.

I do think also that what we see late in the season will tell us things. Not everything, of course. Bill Walsh needed a couple of years to gather the talent for his system before it took off - the first two years were desperate (2-14 his first year, 6-10 his second, and then he never again had a losing season, not counting the strike shortened year).

Agreed. The end of the year will be more telling than the beginning. I'm on the fence when it comes to talent or lack thereof. If the majority of the vets released or not resigned these last two years were out of the league and not playing for other teams in any capacity I would feel alot better about riding the supposed lack of talent bandwagon. Was Pittsburgh loaded with talent and future Hall of Famers at every position or were they simply well coached? But if TT wants to go the youth route fine. Its his job on the line not mine.