THE NFC EAST

[Patler]

He's owned the team for 27 years - starting from a deep hole. You conveniently want to only consider the last 20? They have been up and down, a net of about .500 - a helluva lot of teams have done worse - and that's with more than their share of bad luck with injuries.

As I wrote when I looked at the last 20 years, I did it because those are the years of salary cap football. As I said originally, he had success when he could simply outspend other teams, because there was no salary cap. Since he has had deal with a hard salary cap, he is basically a .500 GM. You can't excuse 20 years by "bad luck". He is a ho hum gm under the constraints of a salary cap.

[texaspackerbacker]

As I wrote when I looked at the last 20 years, I did it because those are the years of salary cap football. As I said originally, he had success when he could simply outspend other teams, because there was no salary cap. Since he has had deal with a hard salary cap, he is basically a .500 GM. You can't excuse 20 years by "bad luck". He is a ho hum gm under the constraints of a salary cap.

Interesting theory, but I doubt it's true. Jerry Jones barely had the money to scrape together and buy the Cowboys for a bargain price. He more resembled George Halas than say Paul Allen or Lamar Hunt. The team made a lot of money, and the franchise got a lot more valuable, hence he is probably filthy rich now, but I doubt even now that he has the money of some other owners who had billions before buying teams.

[Patler]

Interesting theory, but I doubt it's true. Jerry Jones barely had the money to scrape together and buy the Cowboys for a bargain price. He more resembled George Halas than say Paul Allen or Lamar Hunt. The team made a lot of money, and the franchise got a lot more valuable, hence he is probably filthy rich now, but I doubt even now that he has the money of some other owners who had billions before buying teams.

The Cowboys were widely known to have a much larger payroll than much of the league prior to the salary cap. Maybe there were a few richer owners, but Jones had money from his oil and gas business that he was willing to spend on football players. As I remember it, the Cowboys were pointed at as one of the reasons that a salary cap was needed. They had an owner willing to buy championships.

[Patler]

Jerry Jones barely had the money to scrape together and buy the Cowboys for a bargain price.

I didn't recall Jones getting any bargain at the time, in fact I recalled the sale being costly for that day and age. So I looked up prices that other teams were sold for at about that time:

1984 Chargers - $70 million
1984 Broncos - $78 million
1985 Saints - $70 million
1989 Cowboys - $150 million
1994 Patriots - $172 million
1994 Eagles - $185 million
1995 Bucs - $192 million
1997 Seahawks - $197 million

At twice the cost of teams sold just 4 or 5 seasons earlier and only somewhat (15-25%) less than teams sold in the following 8 years, the sale of the Cowboys seemed to set a new value level for NFL teams.

[texaspackerbacker]

All the more reason he didn't have big money to throw around in the pre-cap era as you implied.

[Patler]

All the more reason he didn't have big money to throw around in the pre-cap era as you implied.

But he did. The Cowboys were the Yankees of the NFL, outspending most everyone, as I recall.
As I said, it was Jones' Cowboys that drove home the need for a salary cap.

[pbmax]

Jerry spent a lot of his wealth acquiring the Cowboys, that is true. but he did it by taking on an incredible amount of debt.

He serviced that debt by doing everything he could to turn every fan interaction into a turnstile charging admission. Also he was a leader in naming rights and sponsorships.

He violated League dictates about local sponsorships that competed with national ones (League was sponsored by Coke, Cowboys Stadium by Pepsi). One of young lackey Roger Goodall's first jobs was to negotiate with Jerry over this conflict of sponsorships. In a sign of future hand kowtowing, Goodell convinced the League to go along with the local deals.

Everything you can think of Dan Snyder doing to charge his pubic and fans (and the Packers are headed this way too), Jerry was doing first. Danny excels at it giving his marketing background and Robert Kraft probably has executed the best, but Jerry got there first.

And given the cash windfall he was now reaping, he and the 49ers spent a LOT of money in the new cap era (early to mid 90s). They were the teams that everyone thought would break the rest of the League. But eventually the cap accountants caught up to them and extracted a pound of flesh. Jerry went nearly cap broke trying to keep the triplets together with Deion, but he never was not shy on spending cash for players.

[pbmax]

Also need help, thesaurus failed me (or I failed in using said thesaurus).

Wanted to use a term for paying a price or penalty through a costly and dearly held mean. I think it often includes the idea of "a pound of flesh", which I had to substitute in the above post.

Its a term that I believe with origins in religious principles. Closely related to penance, but this word would be more specifically tied to the idea of a transaction, a giving up of one thing to another person. Probably also tied to reformation, Luther and the Catholic Church. Its going to drive me nuts for a couple of hours, maybe someone here can help.

[Patler]

Also need help, thesaurus failed me (or I failed in using said thesaurus).

Wanted to use a term for paying a price or penalty through a costly and dearly held mean. I think it often includes the idea of "a pound of flesh", which I had to substitute in the above post.

Its a term that I believe with origins in religious principles. Closely related to penance, but this word would be more specifically tied to the idea of a transaction, a giving up of one thing to another person. Probably also tied to reformation, Luther and the Catholic Church. Its going to drive me nuts for a couple of hours, maybe someone here can help.

Retribution?

[Radagast]

Also need help, thesaurus failed me (or I failed in using said thesaurus).

Wanted to use a term for paying a price or penalty through a costly and dearly held mean. I think it often includes the idea of "a pound of flesh", which I had to substitute in the above post.

Its a term that I believe with origins in religious principles. Closely related to penance, but this word would be more specifically tied to the idea of a transaction, a giving up of one thing to another person. Probably also tied to reformation, Luther and the Catholic Church. Its going to drive me nuts for a couple of hours, maybe someone here can help.

So let's look at this word mathematically :

Paying a costly price for something held dear + a pound of flesh + giving up something to another person + a few nuts = ?

Could the word you are looking for be "sacrifice" ?

If I'm correct , as a reward I would like to gain a bit of future kindness maybe ?

[ThunderDan]

Also need help, thesaurus failed me (or I failed in using said thesaurus).

Wanted to use a term for paying a price or penalty through a costly and dearly held mean. I think it often includes the idea of "a pound of flesh", which I had to substitute in the above post.

Its a term that I believe with origins in religious principles. Closely related to penance, but this word would be more specifically tied to the idea of a transaction, a giving up of one thing to another person. Probably also tied to reformation, Luther and the Catholic Church. Its going to drive me nuts for a couple of hours, maybe someone here can help.

A pound of flesh is a Shakespeare term from "The Merchant of Venice".

[pbmax]

Retribution?

Nope, not exactly. Close cousin perhaps. Paying a tribute (forced compensation of some sort) would come closer. But the term I have in mind is almost always used in active sense against the payer. Very similar to extracting a pound of flesh.

[pbmax]

So let's look at this word mathematically :

Paying a costly price for something held dear + a pound of flesh + giving up something to another person + a few nuts = ?

Could the word you are looking for be "sacrifice" ?

If I'm correct , as a reward I would like to gain a bit of future kindness maybe ?

In the ball park here. But a sacrifice would be a dear price to pay for something you wish (often the sacrifice is someone or something else). My search is something you must pay but in most circumstances you would wish to avoid. You have done or achieved something you desired despite what it will now cost.

[pbmax]

A pound of flesh is a Shakespeare term from "The Merchant of Venice".

Yep. And mine a similar idea, less well expressed. Shorter though, because I think its a word not a phrase.

[MadScientist]

Also need help, thesaurus failed me (or I failed in using said thesaurus).

Wanted to use a term for paying a price or penalty through a costly and dearly held mean. I think it often includes the idea of "a pound of flesh", which I had to substitute in the above post.

Its a term that I believe with origins in religious principles. Closely related to penance, but this word would be more specifically tied to the idea of a transaction, a giving up of one thing to another person. Probably also tied to reformation, Luther and the Catholic Church. Its going to drive me nuts for a couple of hours, maybe someone here can help.

Luther vs the CC was about 'indulgences' as in the sale of indulgences (pre-payment for future sins).

Other payment words with religious connotations could be tributes or tithes.