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  • #31
    Re: Walker

    Originally posted by mraynrand
    Originally posted by Brando19
    "The big plays, going across the middle, catching the balls I used to catch in Green Bay, that's what I want," Walker said.
    Yes Walker made big plays, but did I miss something? When did he go across the middle? Once? Twice? I remember him turning upfield against MN inthe 2004 wild card game when he was supposed to be running across the middle, contributing to an INT. One thing I won't miss about Walker is the sound the wind made whistling between his ears.
    That was my thought exactly. If you look back at the 2004 commentary from coaches, they even metioned several times that the Packer passing game would be even more unstoppable if they could send Walker across the middle like they did with Driver. Some seem to equate being big with being good in the middle where you know you will get drilled when making the catch. Driver has shown a willingness to do it, Walker did not for the Packers.

    I argued long and hard on JSO even BEFORE the 2005 season that Walker still had something to prove. He essentially had two seasons in 2004, the first half and the second half. Driver was the proven receiver, Walker had shown inconsistency in routes and in catching the ball. At the start of the season, Driver was the one teams concentrated on while they dared Walker to make plays. He did, and the emphasis shifted to a more balanced respect from defenses for the two Packer receivers.

    Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
    Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs

    In the first half of the season, Walker had 4 games of 100+ yards; in the second half of the season he had just one game with 100+ yards, and that came against Tennessee when he had 11 receptions. If you take that away from his second half season, in the remaining 7 games he had 32 receptions for 447 yards.

    In my evaluation Walker has shown that he commands respect from the defense. The question now is when they give him that respect or attention can he still perform like an elite receiver? The truly great receivers are able to rack up the stats almost regardless of what the defense does. Walker has yet to show that. He very well might do it. He certainly has the physical tools to do it. In my book he did not yet prove that in 2004. What he did prove is that left alone he is a great receiver. In the second half he was "only" very good when the defenses started respecting his ability.

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    • #32
      Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
      Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs
      The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]
      Draft Brandin Cooks WR OSU!

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      • #33
        Why do I believe that Drivers stats would prove to be more stable, though?
        "Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg Jennings

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        • #34
          Originally posted by PaCkFan_n_MD
          Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
          Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs
          The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]
          You have to dig a little deeper,...and remember the season. Walker was the talk of the league the first half, then defenses started respecting his ability. His first half was more consistent, with 100+ yards in games 2, 3, 5 and 7. As I wrote, in the second half he had one big game, with 11 receptions for 152 yards. No other games with 100+ yards, or even 90+ yards. If you take that one game away, his second half of the season was 7 games, 32 receptions and 447 yards. Very good, but not really elite by any means.

          My whole point is that before he is annointed as one of the 3, 4 or 5 best receivers in the league he has to prove that he can perform even when the defenses are geared to stop him.

          Look at what Driver did last year when defenses knew not only that he was the only receiving threat for the Packers, but also that the Packers had no running game.

          Walker's numbers were racked up with Driver on the other side, who virtually matched Walkers season in 2004(84/1208 vs 89/1382); Franks having a solid season at TE, and the Packers running game having over 1900 yards. He is fortunate to be in Denver, where he could have some of the same advantages this year. Realistically though, he still has to prove where he belongs in WR rankings.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by PaCkFan_n_MD
            Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
            Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs
            The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]
            Yeah, pro-rated over a season that still projects to 86 receptions, 1195 yards, and 10 TDs. Not bad for his "bad" half.
            "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

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            • #36
              Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
              Originally posted by PaCkFan_n_MD
              Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
              Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs
              The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]
              Yeah, pro-rated over a season that still projects to 86 receptions, 1195 yards, and 10 TDs. Not bad for his "bad" half.
              I agree with you, thats a great season, but Patler brings up a very valid point that should not be ignored. I have a hunch those facts greatly contributed to TT's unwillingness to sign him to a TO/Moss/Rice/Harrison style extension.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                Originally posted by PaCkFan_n_MD
                Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
                Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs
                The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]
                Yeah, pro-rated over a season that still projects to 86 receptions, 1195 yards, and 10 TDs. Not bad for his "bad" half.
                I agree, as I wrote before.
                How about 73 receptions for 1021 yards? That is what 7 of his last 8 games project out to over a 16 game schedule. Still good, but not elite.

                I never suggested that Walker is not a very good receiver. Clearly he is. I'm not sure how good, yet.

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                • #38
                  I understand what your trying to point out, but I don't really think that, thats the case. In the first 8 games he got about 46 rec., 800 yards, and 7 tds. In the last 8 games he got about 43 rec. 600 yards and 5 tds. The major difference is only about 200 yards and 2 tds. It may very well be that defenses started covering him more and thats why his numbers dropped or it be for many other reasons. Driver could have been equally open and favre throw him the ball more, we had more rushing attempts in the last 8 games, or maybe some other reason. Plus you have to remember that some people have good games and bad games. In the first 8 games he may of had no drops and in the last 8 he may of had all his drops. For example when Randy Moss gets 1400 yards in a season, he may get 900 by week 8 and then tail off. That doesn't mean he's not one of the best, but maybe it just happen to be that the team started losing in the last 8 games and the total offense had less yards altogether.

                  Am just saying that it could have been other reasons why his number dropped a bit, and not just him getting covered more.

                  Also, one can actually use our arguement as a possible reason why Walker had a better second half then the first. If more coverage was towards him and he still got half a dozon tds and 600 yards that says something in its own.
                  Draft Brandin Cooks WR OSU!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by PaCkFan_n_MD
                    I understand what your trying to point out, but I don't really think that, thats the case. In the first 8 games he got about 46 rec., 800 yards, and 7 tds. In the last 8 games he got about 43 rec. 600 yards and 5 tds. The major difference is only about 200 yards and 2 tds. It may very well be that defenses started covering him more and thats why his numbers dropped or it be for many other reasons. Driver could have been equally open and favre throw him the ball more, we had more rushing attempts in the last 8 games, or maybe some other reason. Plus you have to remember that some people have good games and bad games. In the first 8 games he may of had no drops and in the last 8 he may of had all his drops. For example when Randy Moss gets 1400 yards in a season, he may get 900 by week 8 and then tail off. That doesn't mean he's not one of the best, but maybe it just happen to be that the team started losing in the last 8 games and the total offense had less yards altogether.

                    Am just saying that it could have been other reasons why his number dropped a bit, and not just him getting covered more.

                    Also, one can actually use our arguement as a possible reason why Walker had a better second half then the first. If more coverage was towards him and he still got half a dozon tds and 600 yards that says something in its own.
                    I don't diagree one bit, that's exactly my point. He has yet to PROVE that he is an elite receiver, game in and game out. He may just be a good receiver who took advantage of the situation for the first 8 games in 2004, or he might be an 80 receptions, 1200 yards, 10 TD guy year in and year out.

                    It takes more than one year to become an elite receiver. After all, Terry Glenn had 90 receptions as a rookie, but due to injuries and performance he really has proven to be a 50-60 receptions player, not an elite player.

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