R-E-L-A-X

[KYPack]

Finely couldn't run routes for shit his first few years. He eventually learned how to run routes and even threw in an effective block here and there at the end.

He was green as goose shit when he started and when he learned the job, he was shot physically.

There are many guys with similar stories/learning curves.

[Pugger]

Really bad field position in both games, not helped at all by the new punter. Are there any unemployed kickers out there that can kick it farther than 30 yards? Maybe sign a new guy?

Masthay?

[Pugger]

Whether intentional or not, the perception seems to be we must win with Aaron throwing a lot instead of simply calling the game and adjusting. If Lacy gets a hot hand, or Starks, then let them have more focus during that particular game. If the opponent knows that you are forcing a game plan, they are going just change to the template that defenses have used to stop the Packers offense since the slump started last season. Is MM willing to try and emphasize Lacy and run game more, try and establish the run more instead of letting it disappear in a one score game, or does he feel "obligated" by pay or perception of his star QB to ride Aaron's talents no matter what? Sometimes trying harder is the worst thing you can do.

Yes, whatever became of the notion of taking what the damn defense gives you?

[Pugger]

In this case, perception is reality. The reason they won't/CAN'T stick with run-first - why it disappears in most games - is that it simply doesn't work with this O Line. The damn shame of it is McCarthy sticks with that run-first mentality so damn long before finally getting the message. It ain't like the Badgers against most of the Big Ten. The key to Lacy or Starks "getting the hot hand" is running as a change of pace after a bunch of pass plays. The only "obligation" I see is the obsession to run to set up the pass when it SHOULD be the other way around.

I wonder how often Rodgers changes run plays at the LOS to a pass play?

I do think we should run Eddie into the ground. Most backs like him only get better if they get a lot of touches and wear out a defense.

[Pugger]

Finely couldn't run routes for shit his first few years. He eventually learned how to run routes and even threw in an effective block here and there at the end.

He was green as goose shit when he started and when he learned the job, he was shot physically.

There are many guys with similar stories/learning curves.

Cook can run routes. I suspect once he gets more familiar with the offense and working with AR he'll produce. Jered was sidelined for a while this summer after his foot surgery so he is still catching up IMO.

[pbmax]

Finely couldn't run routes for shit his first few years. He eventually learned how to run routes and even threw in an effective block here and there at the end.

He was green as goose shit when he started and when he learned the job, he was shot physically.

There are many guys with similar stories/learning curves.

He also developed a fear of going for contested balls, especially over the middle.

His experience in his contract year with dropsies and the injury really messed with this kids head. He was never the same fearless player after he got hurt.

[texaspackerbacker]

I wonder how often Rodgers changes run plays at the LOS to a pass play?

I do think we should run Eddie into the ground. Most backs like him only get better if they get a lot of touches and wear out a defense.

Most RBs like him and not like him are running behind a decent O Line.

[Fritz]

Tex, I responded in another thread to your constant belittling of the offensive line.

This is the same offensive line (except they have more experience), basically, as in 2014 when Rodgers won his last MVP.

So how do you figure it's the offensive line that's the problem?

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, I responded in another thread to your constant belittling of the offensive line.

This is the same offensive line (except they have more experience), basically, as in 2014 when Rodgers won his last MVP.

So how do you figure it's the offensive line that's the problem?

That's easy. McCarthy - stupidly IMO - has gravitated to a run-first mentality since that time. Incredibly, some would like to see him degenerate even further in that direction.

Even in 2014 and before, Rodgers did not have a lot of time to pass - Tom Brady time, Peyton Manning time, etc., but then, as now, he had/has that wonderful escapability and ability to throw on the run or reset and throw. Teams didn't dare blitz him because he'd make them regret it. Hell, they didn't need to blitz because 4 and 3 man rushes poured right through our O Line anyway - then and now. Then, however, the team had a more Pass-First mentality - a lot more passes on early downs, and when we did run, it often took the other team by surprise and was successful. Occasionally, you still see that, but not nearly enough. Even back then, when the O Line had an obvious run situation, the O Line wasn't much able to just push 'em back.

That's the way I remember it. I really don't know why McCarthy fell for the crap that you need to run to set up the pass, but it has made the offense worse. I still think this team is good enough to win it all - and will win it all - just not because of the lame-assed O Line, but in spite of it with Aaron Rodgers just playing his normal game.

[Radagast]

In this case, perception is reality. The reason they won't/CAN'T stick with run-first - why it disappears in most games - is that it simply doesn't work with this O Line. The damn shame of it is McCarthy sticks with that run-first mentality so damn long before finally getting the message. It ain't like the Badgers against most of the Big Ten. The key to Lacy or Starks "getting the hot hand" is running as a change of pace after a bunch of pass plays. The only "obligation" I see is the obsession to run to set up the pass when it SHOULD be the other way around.

When a team has 1 or more above average RBs, Running the football becomes a no-brainier . (1) It protects the football as yardage is gained. (2) It provides the Team/Offense a way to eat clock and
rest the Defense . (3) It keeps opposing Defenses honest about rushing the QB . and (4) A good running attack can reduce putting the entire success of the Offense on the QB's shoulders .

Too many fans believe in the instant success, the flashy Offense , the lightning attack. Tex , as usual , has gotten it wrong. All Offensive linemen have, sense they began playing the sport, been taught to run block first . It is part of the fundamentals of their positions . Pass blocking is something that is added as the seasons accumulate . MM is most correct to utilize his running attack and have it develop into a stronger force as the season progresses . Now especially as the passing game is still suffering from a bad case of "slow" .

[Fritz]

Tex, I just can't get on board with the "Rodgers does it in spite of his line" thinking.

It hasn't been the greatest offensive line, but it's been good enough. And your shift to blaming McCarthy's playcalling instead of the offensive line, which you had done, is repudiated pretty well, I think, by Radagast above.

[texaspackerbacker]

I hadn't noticed his post until now, but it is pretty wrongheaded. Unless you have Jim Brown or O.J., it's the O Line that makes for a good rushing attack, not having one or two above average RBs. I've always said, if the Packers had O Line dominance on the pro level equivalent to the past Badger teams on the college level, I'd be right there with you guys advocating a run-first attack. But sadly, they don't - not even close.

And I've been criticizing McCarthy for quite a while too - increasingly as he has moved more and more toward a stupid (IMO) run-first mentality.

[King Friday]

The OL has not been abysmal during the first 2 games. The reason Rodgers gets pressure is almost exclusively because he holds the ball too damn long.

There isn't an offensive line in the league that can consistently give the QB 8 seconds in the pocket to throw the ball. If you think that is the solution to the problem, you'll never find it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The OL has not been abysmal during the first 2 games. The reason Rodgers gets pressure is almost exclusively because he holds the ball too damn long.

There isn't an offensive line in the league that can consistently give the QB 8 seconds in the pocket to throw the ball. If you think that is the solution to the problem, you'll never find it.

King you keep making sense to me. You've obviously improved greatly, stick with those meds.

[Radagast]

The OL has not been abysmal during the first 2 games. The reason Rodgers gets pressure is almost exclusively because he holds the ball too damn long.

There isn't an offensive line in the league that can consistently give the QB 8 seconds in the pocket to throw the ball. If you think that is the solution to the problem, you'll never find it.

King Friday, I believe that your on the right track, but let me fill in a few blanks .

First, no Offensive Line in the NFL is expected to protect a QB for more than 3 to 3.5 sec. max , so if the QB is not passing the football to a target in that time window, there must be a reason .
Second, the WR's /TE's are expected to be targets for the QB to throw to. They must demonstrate to the QB that they will be a safe as well as a good target to gain yards/TD with. This means that the receivers must be quick enough to separate from their defender and get open .
Third, if the QB throws them the ball , it is their job to catch the ball .
Forth, provided they have caught the ball, they are supposed to gain as much ground as they can/score if possible.

The answer is a lack of speed or a bad case of slow. This was last seasons problem as well . I'm hoping that Nelson and Cook will be the difference this season. However, don't look for any marked improvements until after the bye week. In addition, each week this seasons O-Line should get better at both pass/run blocking .