Official FIRE Mike McCarthy thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pbmax]

McDaniels is doing what he's best at doing right now. Some guys are just good at one thing and can't handle the whole show.
Examples: Buddy Ryan, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Todd Haley, Dave Wannstedt, Phil Bengsten, Jim Shwartz, etc.
From what I've watched and read about Josh, he's not head coaching material.
Here's a funny clip of his stint at Denver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr7T_jcXmT4

I am with you on this one Trav, but some people do improve with time and experience.

The toughest job is knowing who to trust. You have to talk with them and see if you detect real growth versus a slick power point presentation. We'll never know how that plays out unless someone writes a book after wild success or spectacular failure.

If you limit the search to those without blemishes, you hire Pat Shurmur or Dennis Allen.

[pbmax]

Unless Ted is willing to commit to five more years (NOT the Ron Wolf plan) I don't let him hire the next coach if they decide to fire M3.

You get a GM and go from there.

Then you hire a coach named Mike.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tauscher said on the radio yesterday that Sherman was clearly overwhelmed by both jobs. If everyone inside the building could see it, its pretty damning.

Also a 4 year run of playoff participation is chump change compared to McCarthy.

I don't know how overwhelmed Sherman was, but he absolutely did not want to give up the GM title. Before anyone type "Joe Johnson", Sherman was a competent GM. Competently utilized ALL aspects of the game. Sure, there were some misses, but competent still. Packers never missed the playoffs with Sherman in charge of the Iron Throne.

McCarthy was never GM/Coach. But give Sherman the 11 years the Fat Man has had, and Hades-yeah, Pack would've won at least 4 Super Bowls in this century by now.

[gbgary]

although i didn't like his play calling at first i liked him and the team seemed to respond. things got better as time went along. i'd be willing to give him more time but only if the entire offensive "system" is scrapped. bring in a REAL offensive coordinator and set up a more structured offense. i think capers needs to go...or at least rethink EVERYTHING (which i'm not sure he can/would do). the major thing is thompson. his lack of win-now attitude has lead us to this point. the talent drain on the field is something that can't be argued. drafting where we draft hasn't been supported in FA. there's been a talent drain in the coaching/front-office too. numerous people have gone to other teams and left our team weaker. as i said weeks ago, the running back situation was/is tantamount to negligence.

[Patler]

The last time the Pack had a GM, slash, coach running the show, that GM/Coach won 44 regular season games in 4 years, and he NEVER missed the playoffs.

When you drill down a little bit, his record isn't so impressive. He made the playoffs largely because no other team in the division had a winning record for his years. Basically, he started the season with 5 or 6 wins in the bank because the division wasn't very good. He had the good fortune to play a lot of bad teams outside the division, too. I analyzed it at one point, and as I recall his record against teams that finished the year above .500 was poor overall, and declined each of the years he was in charge.

Things wre spiralling downward for him.

[Smidgeon]

Unless Ted is willing to commit to five more years (NOT the Ron Wolf plan) I don't let him hire the next coach if they decide to fire M3.

You get a GM and go from there.

Then you hire a coach named Mike.

Yep. Green Bay has a few requirements for future head coaches:

1) Win Super Bowl
2) High powered offense
3) Be named Mike

M4, here we come (eventually).

[pbmax]

I don't know how overwhelmed Sherman was, but he absolutely did not want to give up the GM title. Before anyone type "Joe Johnson", Sherman was a competent GM. Competently utilized ALL aspects of the game. Sure, there were some misses, but competent still. Packers never missed the playoffs with Sherman in charge of the Iron Throne.

McCarthy was never GM/Coach. But give Sherman the 11 years the Fat Man has had, and Hades-yeah, Pack would've won at least 4 Super Bowls in this century by now.

Obviously the rest of the football world agrees with you. Look at his accomplishments since the Packers mistakenly let him go.

2006 Asst HC Texans' regular season offense ranked 28th out of 32 NFL teams.[12]
2007 OC Texans, regular season offense improved to a ranking of 14.[13]
2008 HC Aggies - 4-8 record
2009 HC Aggies - 6-7 but they beat Texas Tech!
2010 Aggies HC Co-Big South Division Champs! 9-3!!!!
2011 Aggies HC 7–6, 4–5 in Big 12 play to finish in a tie for sixth place. They were invited to the Meineke Car Care Bowl of Texas where they defeated Northwestern 33–22!!
FIRED!? Completely unfair. Unrecognized genius.
2012 Dolphins OC 7-9!
2013 Dolphins OC 8-8!
2014 Dolphins OC FIRED AGAIN !?!?!?
2015 HIGH SCHOOL!! He replaced Keith Kenyon who resigned as football coach to be the Assistant Principal.

Listen, its easy to misunderstand all this and to look down on Mike Sherman's post Packers career. But lets face it, making two bowl games is almost exactly like making the NFL playoffs. He's a genius.

[woodbuck27]

I'm the king of Stubby bashing.

How many Kings does Packer Nation have; just consider our house ' Packerrats ' and a logical reason for booting MM and TT?

It's been over the top too obvious over the past 3-4 seasons that any reality and another Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers and this ' asshole tight ' GM and HC and his DC etc. are, over the top due to be FIRED.

Any logical analysis of the current roster will come to a conclusion that is nothing short of a disaster and real hope and Super Bowl. I want it all blown up and to see where we can go in a brand new five year window. As it is now we are 'in reality' going nowhere and long playoff run.

[woodbuck27]

I agree with this as well. The RB situation this season is ENTIRELY on Thompson. That is an enormous blunder for the GM of a professional football team. Toss in Thompson's inability to find a capable, healthy replacement for Finley for years...the ridiculously handled departure of Sitton...and the overall downward trend this team has witnessed over the last 2 years and you have enough reasons to think Thompson's best days are behind him.

It is better to just hire a new GM after this season and let that person assemble a new brain trust...rather than leave Thompson in place to oversee a transition that he won't see the conclusion of anyway.

Well stated !

[pbmax]

How many Kings does Packer Nation have; just consider our house ' Packerrats ' and a logical reason for booting MM and TT?

It's been over the top too obvious over the past 3-4 seasons that any reality and another Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers and this ' asshole tight ' GM and HC and his DC etc. are, over the top due to be FIRED.

Any logical analysis of the current roster will come to a conclusion that is nothing short of a disaster and real hope and Super Bowl. I want it all blown up and to see where we can go in a brand new five year window. As it is now we are 'in reality' going nowhere and long playoff run.

Explain the 2014 season as being clear reason to fire all 3.

[Carolina_Packer]

I also don't get the "Fire Capers" thing this year. Down as many starters as he is, starting Gunter and Goodson for a couple games--their #4 and #5 CBs, without Matthews due to a balky hamstring, losing their leading tackler yesterday, etc. Before yesterday, their losses were by 3, 14 (the league best Cowboys), 1, and 5. In other words, they were blown out twice including yesterday which was by far the most points they gave up. They had (might still have) the best run defense in the NFL and not because teams didn't try (although some teams got away from it).

The defense is breaking down because the pass rushers are broken down (Matthews' hamstring, Peppers' age, Perry's double teams, Fackrell's rookieness, Elliot's limitations) and because the pass defense is injured (Shields and Randall are still out), leaving the super-raw CBs in coverage. Perrish Cox is a wiley vet. He got his ankles broken three times that I can remember yesterday against the Packers but still ended up making very key plays down the stretch. Can you imagine Gunter, Rollins, or Goodson successfully doing any of that? The talent on defense is injured. The talent on offense is either injured or deficient.

+ 1

Sure, nobody wants to use injuries as an excuse. "Next man up!" We are seeing plenty of next men...several of them playing more snaps than anyone on the coaching staff (or front office) likely hoped that would have to play this year. Gunter was an improving player, but still a complimentary one. Now he's pressed into action because TT decided that they were good at CB. I don't want to give anyone a completely free pass because of injuries, but it factors into what I believe is affecting the team's performance on the field. A famous campaign consultant, James Carville, once coined the phrase "It's the economy, stupid" when coming up with a slogan/strategy for winning the 1992 presidential election. Extend that to "It's the players, stupid." I'm not saying we'd be 9-0 if we had all the guys who have been lost to injury. I'd like to think we'd have a winning record, and much of this fire this guy, fire that guy would be held in check. Perhaps MM's voice has run it's course in GB, or perhaps they are playing a bunch of inexperienced guys at the same time, and are hoping for the light to turn on while praying for the starters to make it back before the season is hopelessly lost.

In 2010 they had a lot of injuries, but clearly had enough depth. This year, not so much.

[Patler]

How was the running back situation such a blunder? Eddie Lacy + an experienced backup who had nearly 1000 yards in 2015. Lacy was running as well as he ever had until he was injured.

Where was this monumental blunder that some of you are talking about????

[pbmax]

How banged up was the secondary in 2010? They lost Wood and someone (Shields) in the Super Bowl. But did they lose both starters during the year?

[woodbuck27]

Payton is an interesting comparable. The Saints were generally high powered for a few years and Drew Brees considered an elite QB, yet they've gone 7-9 the last two seasons. I was surprised to look back and see they won 7 games each of the last 2 years, because it feels like they lost a lot more than that.

Tomlin won the Superbowl in 2008 and went through a couple of 8-8 years with the Steelers in 2012 and 2013 before the Steelers rebounded a bit.

John Harbaugh won the Superbowl in 2012 and the Ravens were 8-8 the following year and 5-11 last year. The Ravens are above .500 this year but at 5-4 have a record that is in the same boat as the 16 or so teams within 1 game of .500.

Coughlin survived a number of disappointing seasons before he "retired".

My point is that coaches that have won the Superbowl and generally put together more winning seasons than not get a bit more leeway than most. The Packers are not a very good football team right now but I still think it would take more than 1 losing season for M3 to get canned. I imagine if things really go south that Capers might be let go but that M3 would get at least 1 more year.

I'm not defending McCarthy and am exasperated by the disconnect between how he feels about their preparation during the week vs their output on Sundays. I just think the odds are still good he will be given at least 1 more year to right the ship.

As some of us may be 'betting men' and logically looking at how the current Packer Brainthrust ( LOL) farts around.

You would get a lot of support for your conclusion.

[Carolina_Packer]

Payton is an interesting comparable. The Saints were generally high powered for a few years and Drew Brees considered an elite QB, yet they've gone 7-9 the last two seasons. I was surprised to look back and see they won 7 games each of the last 2 years, because it feels like they lost a lot more than that.

Tomlin won the Superbowl in 2008 and went through a couple of 8-8 years with the Steelers in 2012 and 2013 before the Steelers rebounded a bit.

John Harbaugh won the Superbowl in 2012 and the Ravens were 8-8 the following year and 5-11 last year. The Ravens are above .500 this year but at 5-4 have a record that is in the same boat as the 16 or so teams within 1 game of .500.

Coughlin survived a number of disappointing seasons before he "retired".

My point is that coaches that have won the Superbowl and generally put together more winning seasons than not get a bit more leeway than most. The Packers are not a very good football team right now but I still think it would take more than 1 losing season for M3 to get canned. I imagine if things really go south that Capers might be let go but that M3 would get at least 1 more year.

I'm not defending McCarthy and am exasperated by the disconnect between how he feels about their preparation during the week vs their output on Sundays. I just think the odds are still good he will be given at least 1 more year to right the ship.

Well reasoned and stated. I would prefer the Pittsburgh approach. I see Green Bay as having a slow, steady hand in reacting to such issues, and not firing everyone in a blaze of glory with no plan behind it. Perhaps they do need a new OC to overcome the stale route tree and receivers performance within that route tree. Perhaps they need a take the top off the defense WR that they don't currently have. Perhaps they need a TE who can stay healthy and produce down the seam. I think AR can still hit an open receiver, the issue being consistently having enough open receivers. The offense needs new life. The other MM (Mark Murphy) needs to figure out 1) whether Ted wants to retire 2) if he doesn't want to retire, if he can work with McCarthy to get him to find a new voice to guide the offense. That alone may not produce enough to beat man coverage. That's where Ted comes in.