Official FIRE Mike McCarthy thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bobblehead]

For the ninetieth time this month I'd like to point out again...MM has did a good job with the talent given to him....with the talent given to him.
If the season goes array....there is only one spot to point

You and I are dead opposite in our beliefs. I think TT provides a lot of talent. I think MM is an adequate coach. The fact that he has not learned to allow teams back in games that should be over has me ready to move on. I am a realist though. If we make the playoffs no way he is fired. If he loses 2 of 3 from here....probably not, but he will be on shaky ground.

[GBkrzygrl]

So, what, nothing short of a Super Bowl victory is good enough?

One of the articles someone linked recently, which was about a former player, coach, front office person or the like, hit the nail on the head. Packer fans are friendly, warm and courteous, but have an odd sense of entitlement.

In a sense I agree with you and would probably admit that I am somewhat in that category. Although I started following the Packers in 1979, it wasn't until Favre came along with some other good acquisitions that Packers began to improve and became a winning team. If memory serves me correctly they haven't had a losing season since around 2007. We are so used to them making it to the play-offs that because they have really struggled there is a lot of blame going around.

In all honesty I was beginning to feel like MM's message had gotten stale. As well as the predictable play-calling. It would frustrate me no end when it seemed like Rodgers was always looking for the home run vs moving the sticks. Is that the play calling or was that Rodgers?

I am hopeful that MM is finally becoming more creative...mainly out of necessity and he seems to have gotten Rodgers to buy in. I don't think he will be fired at the end of the season especially if they do win the last 3 games. But if this season has taught me one thing nothing is a sure thing. The Chicago game will be brutal. I want to see what the play calling is and see what happens.

[RashanGary]

Well said GBCG. Welocme.

[Pugger]

In a sense I agree with you and would probably admit that I am somewhat in that category. Although I started following the Packers in 1979, it wasn't until Favre came along with some other good acquisitions that Packers began to improve and became a winning team. If memory serves me correctly they haven't had a losing season since around 2007. We are so used to them making it to the play-offs that because they have really struggled there is a lot of blame going around.

In all honesty I was beginning to feel like MM's message had gotten stale. As well as the predictable play-calling. It would frustrate me no end when it seemed like Rodgers was always looking for the home run vs moving the sticks. Is that the play calling or was that Rodgers?

I am hopeful that MM is finally becoming more creative...mainly out of necessity and he seems to have gotten Rodgers to buy in. I don't think he will be fired at the end of the season especially if they do win the last 3 games. But if this season has taught me one thing nothing is a sure thing. The Chicago game will be brutal. I want to see what the play calling is and see what happens.

Hey! Nice to see you here!

[Bretsky]

So, what, nothing short of a Super Bowl victory is good enough?

There was a time when you said if the Packers ever won a Super Bowl under TT you would revise your opinion of him and hold him in similar regard as you did Wolf, who also won just one. As I recall, you did accept TT after 2010 .... for about one season.

One of the articles someone linked recently, which was about a former player, coach, front office person or the like, hit the nail on the head. Packer fans are friendly, warm and courteous, but have an odd sense of entitlement.

Most sports fans understand that sometimes seasons go bad, and that Championship seasons are uncommon. They evaluate their coaches, GMs etc. by reasonable standards of overall effectiveness and competitiveness. Packer fans, on the other hand, seem to think they are entitled to Super Bowl wins, and someone has failed and should be replaced if that does not happen.

Obviously the ultimate goal is a Super Bowl win, and when that does not happen over an extended period evaluations should be made. I think in assessing blame there are questions to ask:

If the Packers had won the Super Bowl in 2014, would you be calling for anyone's head regardless of what the final outcome is this year? I wouldn't, and I suspect you wouldn't either.

What if they had made it to the Super Bowl in 2014, but lost? For me the answer remains, no, but it is less certain without knowing how the game would have been lost.

So then I look at the 2014 NFCCG. Did they lose that game because of a lack of talent? I say, no. They dominated most of that game, not unlike the game this past Sunday. In my opinion, that game was lost because of coaching decisions and coaching effectiveness, not because of talent deficiency.

Then I look at the other huge playoff disappointments, and I don't see the losses occurring from a lack of talent, but to the extent not from fate or bad luck, from coaching decisions and/or coaching effectiveness. I see these as very similar to Holmgren's SB loss with the Packers. That game wasn't lost because of talent deficiencies either.

With all of that said, if I am at the point of thinking a change is needed, the first hot seat is firmly beneath the coaching staff because of the manners in which playoff departures have occurred.

Getting back to this season, if they win out the remaining games, no one should be in jeopardy. I think TT has assembled some good young talent and depth, even though he may not have found a budding super star recently. If they win out, MM will have salvaged a sinking ship that could have plunged to the depths, and he will deserve to stay. However, his struggles the last two seasons coupled with his playoff performances overall would have him on a somewhat short leash for me.

Anything less than 3-0 would have MM's tenure under review. A loss to the Bears would be big in my decision making. Going 1-1 against the Vikings and Lions, not so much.

My annual goal is Super Bowl or Bust. If not bust, then evidence we're moving closer to the Super Bowl. In regards to TT criticism, (I'm actually surprised you remember my reference as I'm surprised anybody ready any of my drivel )) I noted I would not criticize TT for two years after we won a Super Bowl and I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. I did that (and believe it or not I kept track....lol). Perhaps Packer fans are spoiled. We're spoiled by having the best QB in the NFL on our team for many years in a row. When it comes down to it, I don't think TT has done that great of a job surrounding Aaron Rodgers with enough talent. When I consider why, I don't think he's as effective as I'd expect him to be in utilizing the three means to get talent. And if you go draft and develop only....you have to hit on a much higher percentage of your picks and it leaves less room for error for crappy first round draft picks. Our QB almost always keeps us at .500 or slightly above .500 in today's NFL. Until his play steps back I think every year we start as a borderline playoff team. Your assertion is correct in 2014; but in dealing with the facts we didn't win it all that year. I have a hard time answering the next question w/o knowing how we lost the SB had we got there. So what steps by our GM, with the coaching staff or talent, to put us in a better position for a championship ? What, if any moves, have been made to try to put us over the top ? Or are we ok with the idea that TT does not have that in his blood....to make moves like that. This year....the captain obvious move......and one I've always noted was a good one....was the signing of Jared Cook. I know some note we "tried" to replace Finley before this but we have filed. Plodder was a crap pick so instead of saying TT tried I view that attempt as a failure.

Perhaps my view of TT is heavily swayed for my bias to hire Eliot Wolf before he leaves Green Bay. Truth be told I consider TT to be an above average GM....BUT......if I'm being honest I like some of his assistants that have left for other pastures better than TT. That might happen again if Eliot Wolf leaves.

I'm also not fully on board with the coaching staff either. I consider MM okay...better than average. I consider most of our staff OK. But we're far from elite in terms of the experience and quality of our assistants IMO. I would be ok with changes there.

But Ted's reign most likely is about done due to age/retirement anyways; I don't want to see another good candidate leave to go somewhere else. I would like to see Wolf hired, Ted made to a consultant, as as the reigns are handed over Wolf can judge the staff and make the appropriate changes.

[Zool]

My annual goal is Super Bowl or Bust .

How can you possibly set a goal about something 100% out of your control?

[Bretsky]

How can you possibly set a goal about something 100% out of your control?

Businesses, our own employers, do it all the time ? As a fan, why can't I ?

[pbmax]

Businesses, our own employers, do it all the time ? As a fan, why can't I ?

If the goal is completely out of your control, you are likely to make bad decisions when you don't make it.

[denverYooper]

If the goal is completely out of your control, you are likely to make bad decisions when you don't make it.

Especially if the goal fundamentally has very low odds for even the best employees.

[pbmax]

Especially if the goal fundamentally has very low odds for even the best employees.

Patler had a great post a long time ago about the practical problems that arise when someone proposes a pie in the sky goal as a number to be monitored and achieved.

I think the examples was zero workplace accidents or something like that. Or given this forum, might have been zero first 2 round draft busts.

I had no luck finding it, but the point was that trying to achieve perfection was an inevitable failure given enough time. It focuses people's attention on details that might be difficult in the short term to address and draws away attention from more immediate concerns that could be addressed and would help improve the situation.

I have worked for both small and large companies before and am acutely aware how a single force of personality can move something along despite obstacles and odds in the former. I think its an underrated part of starting a small business and keeping it going. However, by its very nature, its prone to a lot of failures. And when conditions change or the company gets bigger, the same unrelenting stubbornness becomes a detriment as the company finds it harder to change course when necessary.

[Fritz]

You're over thinking this.

If the Bears win, there is a serious problem in Green Bay, and some one - MM or Ted or both - needs to be fired immediately after the game.

If the Packers win, we're going to the Super Bowl for sure!

[George Cumby]

How can you possibly set a goal about something 100% out of your control?

[woodbuck27]

In a sense I agree with you and would probably admit that I am somewhat in that category. Although I started following the Packers in 1979, it wasn't until Favre came along with some other good acquisitions that Packers began to improve and became a winning team. If memory serves me correctly they haven't had a losing season since around 2007. We are so used to them making it to the play-offs that because they have really struggled there is a lot of blame going around.

In all honesty I was beginning to feel like MM's message had gotten stale. As well as the predictable play-calling. It would frustrate me no end when it seemed like Rodgers was always looking for the home run vs moving the sticks. Is that the play calling or was that Rodgers?

I am hopeful that MM is finally becoming more creative...mainly out of necessity and he seems to have gotten Rodgers to buy in. I don't think he will be fired at the end of the season especially if they do win the last 3 games. But if this season has taught me one thing nothing is a sure thing. The Chicago game will be brutal. I want to see what the play calling is and see what happens.

Nice post and ........ Whalecum !

[woodbuck27]

My annual goal is Super Bowl or Bust. If not bust, then evidence we're moving closer to the Super Bowl. In regards to TT criticism, (I'm actually surprised you remember my reference as I'm surprised anybody ready any of my drivel )) I noted I would not criticize TT for two years after we won a Super Bowl and I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. I did that (and believe it or not I kept track....lol). Perhaps Packer fans are spoiled. We're spoiled by having the best QB in the NFL on our team for many years in a row. When it comes down to it, I don't think TT has done that great of a job surrounding Aaron Rodgers with enough talent. When I consider why, I don't think he's as effective as I'd expect him to be in utilizing the three means to get talent. And if you go draft and develop only....you have to hit on a much higher percentage of your picks and it leaves less room for error for crappy first round draft picks. Our QB almost always keeps us at .500 or slightly above .500 in today's NFL. Until his play steps back I think every year we start as a borderline playoff team. Your assertion is correct in 2014; but in dealing with the facts we didn't win it all that year. I have a hard time answering the next question w/o knowing how we lost the SB had we got there. So what steps by our GM, with the coaching staff or talent, to put us in a better position for a championship ? What, if any moves, have been made to try to put us over the top ? Or are we ok with the idea that TT does not have that in his blood....to make moves like that. This year....the captain obvious move......and one I've always noted was a good one....was the signing of Jared Cook. I know some note we "tried" to replace Finley before this but we have filed. Plodder was a crap pick so instead of saying TT tried I view that attempt as a failure.

Perhaps my view of TT is heavily swayed for my bias to hire Eliot Wolf before he leaves Green Bay. Truth be told I consider TT to be an above average GM....BUT......if I'm being honest I like some of his assistants that have left for other pastures better than TT. That might happen again if Eliot Wolf leaves.

I'm also not fully on board with the coaching staff either. I consider MM okay...better than average. I consider most of our staff OK. But we're far from elite in terms of the experience and quality of our assistants IMO. I would be ok with changes there.

But Ted's reign most likely is about done due to age/retirement anyways; I don't want to see another good candidate leave to go somewhere else. I would like to see Wolf hired, Ted made to a consultant, as as the reigns are handed over Wolf can judge the staff and make the appropriate changes.

Anyone see this?

http://www.12up.com/posts/4269925-former-packers-coach-rips-ted-thompson-for-not-helping-aaron-rodgers

Former Packers Coach Rips Ted Thompson For Not Helping Aaron Rodgers

" Former fan favorite coach Kevin Greene, a Hall of Famer player who was an assistant coach with the defense on the Packers Super Bowl squad, blasted Thompson on 105.7FM The Fan for not getting enough help for Aaron Rodgers the past few seasons. "

[channtheman]

You're over thinking this.

If the Bears win, there is a serious problem in Green Bay, and some one - MM or Ted or both - needs to be fired immediately after the game.

If the Packers win, we're going to the Super Bowl for sure!