DOUGHERTY---PACKERS RECENT DRAFTS MISSING THE MARK

[hoosier]

Big plays surrendered are way up too.

And big ("explosive") plays produced are way down from 2009-14. Ok, it's not just turnover ratio, it's that plus EP differential.

[hoosier]

You do expect to hit on pro-bowl studs every so often. Since our superbowl win that just hasn't happened. Cobb, Burnett, Perry, Daniels, Bulaga, Lacy, Bach, Randall... Some good NFL starters in there but no blue chippers so to speak. A few are close.

I'd say the primary function of the draft is to get productive first contracts. And in that we've been successful. Rookie contracts are the obvious way in the NFL to get more than you pay for. But when you're not getting your share of new blue chippers and your old blue chippers are getting extinction-level injuries, career-wrecking girlfriends, or just plain old.... you're going to feel the decline.

Hate to ever fuel Bretsky but I think the top end of our roster, the 2nd and 3rd contract guys, could use some turnover this off season and there's really only one way to do that.

As recent as September, I recall that Ted's latest drafts were looking pretty good. We all (excepting Chicken Little) thought they had the makings of an elite secondary, and that if the defensive line could hold up until Pennell returned then everything was going to be hunky dory. Some of the guys you list are really close to all-pro level when they're healthy: Daniels, Perry, Lacy, Bach, Randall. I don't see the draft as a primary contributor to the Packers's problems.

[hoosier]

I do wonder though if TT has lost hos touch a bit. For a while, he excelled at drafting impact players in the late 1st/2nd round:

2005: Aaron Rodgers (24)
2005: Nick Collins (51)
2006: Greg Jennings (52)
2008: Jordy Nelson (36)
2009: Clay Matthews (26)
2010: Bryan Bulaga (23)
2011: Randall Cobb (64)

Since then, only Eddie Lacy has been a pick that produced an impact player. And that was only for 2 years.

Some of the guys you list didn't emerge as impact players until their third year (Rodgers, Collins, Nelson). HaHa, Randall, and Adams could still fit that mold.

[Patler]

Some of the guys you list didn't emerge as impact players until their third year (Rodgers, Collins, Nelson). HaHa, Randall, and Adams could still fit that mold.

In his third season, some were saying Collins was a bust. He finished the year with 0 int., 0 fumbles and just 5 pd.He had by far his lowest tackle numbers to then. He did miss 3 games, but his performance was down by more than just the missed games.

[Pugger]

I do wonder though if TT has lost hos touch a bit. For a while, he excelled at drafting impact players in the late 1st/2nd round:

2005: Aaron Rodgers (24)
2005: Nick Collins (51)
2006: Greg Jennings (52)
2008: Jordy Nelson (36)
2009: Clay Matthews (26)
2010: Bryan Bulaga (23)
2011: Randall Cobb (64)

Since then, only Eddie Lacy has been a pick that produced an impact player. And that was only for 2 years.

Had Eddie not injured that ankle he would have a decent season this year. He was averaging over 5 yards a carry.

[pbmax]

Perry has been fine this year. Its arguable on the Pro Bowl front, but he's been solid in all phases. They need ANOTHER pass rusher and Daniels/Matthews/Peppers have been inconsistent. Peppers looking better lately.

[Patler]

I do wonder though if TT has lost hos touch a bit. For a while, he excelled at drafting impact players in the late 1st/2nd round:

2005: Aaron Rodgers (24)
2005: Nick Collins (51)
2006: Greg Jennings (52)
2008: Jordy Nelson (36)
2009: Clay Matthews (26)
2010: Bryan Bulaga (23)
2011: Randall Cobb (64)

Since then, only Eddie Lacy has been a pick that produced an impact player. And that was only for 2 years.

If that article was written in 2007, neither Rodgers nor Collins would have been considered difference makers.
If it was written in 2010, Nelson wouldn't have been considered a difference maker.
At this point of 2012, Bulaga was out for the year after missing time in 2011. Not much certainty about him, either.

Perry is productive, as was Lacy. Adams is showing ability this year. Dix still can be a difference maker, and it is too soon to know about anyone after Dix.

[yetisnowman]

As recent as September, I recall that Ted's latest drafts were looking pretty good. We all (excepting Chicken Little) thought they had the makings of an elite secondary, and that if the defensive line could hold up until Pennell returned then everything was going to be hunky dory. Some of the guys you list are really close to all-pro level when they're healthy: Daniels, Perry, Lacy, Bach, Randall. I don't see the draft as a primary contributor to the Packers's problems.

None of those guys are "really close" to being all pro. Maybe you meant pro-bowl. Even still that's borderline delusional save for maybe Daniels. And even he is having a down year in my opinion. Lacy is injured, but he is also coming off one of the most disappointing seasons for a RB in NFL history. Perry, Randall, Bahktiari? Seriously?

[Patler]

Lacy is injured, but he is also coming off one of the most disappointing seasons for a RB in NFL history. Perry, Randall, Bahktiari? Seriously?

Lacy had one of the most disappointing seasons for a RB in NFL history? Are you serious? Lacy still ran hard and averaged the same per carry as he did his rookie season. Yes, more was expected, but I think you have over reacted to it.

Perry has had a good year, and Bakhtiari is getting respect as a pass blocker.

[red]

Lacy had one of the most disappointing seasons for a RB in NFL history? Are you serious? Lacy still ran hard and averaged the same per carry as he did his rookie season. Yes, more was expected, but I think you have over reacted to it.

Perry has had a good year, and Bakhtiari is getting respect as a pass blocker.

its really nice to see nick perry almost becoming the player we expected him to be in year one, here in year #5

[yetisnowman]

Lacy had one of the most disappointing seasons for a RB in NFL history? Are you serious? Lacy still ran hard and averaged the same per carry as he did his rookie season. Yes, more was expected, but I think you have over reacted to it.

Perry has had a good year, and Bakhtiari is getting respect as a pass blocker.

Yes I stand by my statement. 750 yds 3 tds from a guy that was supposed to be a top 3-4 back in the league. He was fat and sluggish and not very productive. If 2015 wasn't a major disappointment, then why did everyone on the planet refer to this season as a "bounceback" opportunity.
Perry has had a good year.....by his standards. He has also been largely invisible since about week 5. Bakhtiari is a solid starter, but far from elite. My original assertion stands that None of these players a close to all pro caliber.

[3irty1]

With draft picks you have to put extra weight on what you contribute on your rookie contract. Those precious years are the key to beating the parity mechanisms of the NFL. IMO if every draft pick were just Micah Hyde level of value we'd be the best team in the NFL.

Taking that into account for the Nick Perry pick to be bragworthy he would have to become Demarcus Ware, a talent so special you're happy that he'll take his second contract from you instead of someone else. He's not that, probably won't ever be, and he did very little with his rookie contract.

Perhaps Adams, Clinton-Dix, Martinez, Montgomery, etc will make a leap and become the difference makers that Jennings, Collins, or Matthews once were. But if even if they do there's no doubt that we're currently in a blue chip drought as the guard changes.

[Patler]

its really nice to see nick perry almost becoming the player we expected him to be in year one, here in year #5

I didn't expect it year 1 at all, with the position change and all. When he missed most of his rookie year, I didn't have real high expectations for year 2 either. My disappointment with Perry was the constant injuries. It seemed that each year he had games when he showed solid ability, but he was injured so much I figured it just wasn't meant to be.

Overall, yes a disappointing career, but not due to his ability or effort, just the constant injuries.

[Patler]

Yes I stand by my statement. 750 yds 3 tds from a guy that was supposed to be a top 3-4 back in the league. He was fat and sluggish and not very productive. If 2015 wasn't a major disappointment, then why did everyone on the planet refer to this season as a "bounceback" opportunity.
Perry has had a good year.....by his standards. He has also been largely invisible since about week 5. Bakhtiari is a solid starter, but far from elite. My original assertion stands that None of these players a close to all pro caliber.

I never considered Lacy one of the 3 or 4 best in the league. Not at all. As far as most disappointing ever, I was much more disappointed in John Brockington suddenly becoming unwilling to run into traffic, dancing behind the line without running forward. Imwas disappointed in Lacy getting out of shape, but not his effort on the field. He's young, he screwed up.

Didn't know you wanted to find just all pros. GB has none, and hasn't had for years and years, in my opinion. All pros are few and far between. You don't have to have all pros to be successful.

[yetisnowman]

I never considered Lacy one of the 3 or 4 best in the league. Not at all. As far as most disappointing ever, I was much more disappointed in John Brockington suddenly becoming unwilling to run into traffic, dancing behind the line without running forward. Imwas disappointed in Lacy getting out of shape, but not his effort on the field. He's young, he screwed up.

Didn't know you wanted to find just all pros. GB has none, and hasn't had for years and years, in my opinion. All pros are few and far between. You don't have to have all pros to be successful.

Well many experts predicted Lacy to perform at that level. And you can poo poo fantasy football of you like, but he was a first round selection for a lot of people last season, based on the projections of people that get paid to make such projections.

My all-pro comments were in response to hoosier's comments specifically that stated that Daniels, Perry, Lacy, Randall, Bahktiari are all really close to all pro level.
I agree you can be a good team without all pros. But you need to have some next tier guys i.e. pro-bowl caliber players. And do the Packers have any? Aaron and Jordy maybe then what?