Fans need to let the young players mature

[Patler]

I
The draft and develop system would seem to require perfect timing for all the players talents to gel or peak at about the same time to produce a really good championship team. Without a serious entry into the FA market each season to plug the holes in the draft and develop system, you wind up with talent that is either always turning over or always in development. The end result? Teams that are good but rarely ever great.

In the NFL, that is very true for everyone. It requires players like Bulaga in 2010 contributing more than expected, and others being as good as they ever have been or will be. As good as Belichik is, how many Super Bowls has he won during the years TT has been in GB?

I think GB has been unusually impacted by career ending injuries. All teams have some, but GB seems to have had more than it's fair share, and to significant players too. How much better would this team have been with Collins and Finley the past 6 years, and with them and Shields this year?

[Maxie the Taxi]

108-61 since 2006. Where do you suppose that ranks among NFL teams? I would guess 2nd behind NE and ahead of Pittsburgh. You can say they are rarely ever great but to that I have two responses: isn't that true of all teams (with the notable exception of New England under Belichick)? And would you really trade one year of greatness, assuming you could get it, for consistently being in the hunt?

To reduce what I wrote to those extremes is quite a trick. I think with a smart draft system AND a smart FA system you could always be in the hunt but you'd have a better chance of fielding a great team more often.

[Maxie the Taxi]

In the NFL, that is very true for everyone. It requires players like Bulaga in 2010 contributing more than expected, and others being as good as they ever have been or will be. As good as Belichik is, how many Super Bowls has he won during the years TT has been in GB?

I think GB has been unusually impacted by career ending injuries. All teams have some, but GB seems to have had more than it's fair share, and to significant players too. How much better would this team have been with Collins and Finley the past 6 years, and with them and Shields this year?

All true, but I would guess injuries ARE the main reason for the short player careers on average. A draft and develop team suffering an injury to a key player has to theoretically wait four years to replace this player via the draft. A team willing to dip into the FA market can replace an injured player in one off-season. No?

[Freak Out]

Fans complain that HHCD isn't another Nick Collins and Davante Adams isn't another Jordy Nelson, but how far off are they? HHCD already has more interceptions and more tackles than Collins had his first three years. Adams already has a lot more receptions for more yards and more TDs than Nelson had his first three years. Each Collins and Nelson had breakout seasons their 4th years.

Couldn't agree more Snoop. That said there needs to be some players on the roster now that can help with that transition.

[red]

collins came from a tiny division 2 school playing against high school level talent

haha played from the closest thing you can get to a pro team in college, and he played against the best

i would expect a long learning curve from a small school guy (like driver, or janis), haha should be pro ready and up to speed from day one

the problem with adams is that he looked good as a rookie, had tons of hype for year 2, and flopped. he regressed after his first year

[Patler]

All true, but I would guess injuries ARE the main reason for the short player careers on average. A draft and develop team suffering an injury to a key player has to theoretically wait four years to replace this player via the draft. A team willing to dip into the FA market can replace an injured player in one off-season. No?

Like signing Jared Cook?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You do realize that Luck has about 4" and 35 pounds on Dix, don't you? Lots of guys bigger than Dix have failed to get Luck down, too.

We see safeties fail to make that play on big or quick QBs quite often. They can't hit too high, or it's a penalty. They can't hit too low either. They can't hit straight on for fear of their helmet sliding up and making any contact near the QB's head. If they hit too hard, something is normally called. In short, they get there then have to gear down and almost limit themselves to an arm tackle, or risk being penalized.

Well then, make the goddamn arm tackle!

I ain't a physicist, but there's a thing called momentum. If X weighs 245lbs and Y weighs 208 lbs and X is near stationary and Y is dashing toward X unblocked at a high velocity, momentum says upon impact Y will knock the shit out of X, unless of course, Y fucks up.

That fuck up was utterly inexcusable. Dix is, what, 6'1 208 lbs? Tyrion Lannister could've made that play. Dix choked in the clutch, plain and simple.

[red]

Like signing Jared Cook?

yup, to replace a guy we lost in 2013

[Maxie the Taxi]

Like signing Jared Cook?

Yup. I'm arguing they should do more of that and sooner. How long has Finley been gone? How many years have we been trying to replace him with a draftee? Same with Tremontana. Same with Jennings? Same with ILB. Now, if Shields and Lacy aren't coming back, do we draft a couple of kids and wait four years? Or do we sign a vet?

[red]

That fuck up was utterly inexcusable. Dix is, what, 6'1 208 lbs?

that was his combine weight

i'd bet he's closer to 225. he's a pretty solidly built dude these days

[Patler]

collins came from a tiny division 2 school playing against high school level talent

haha played from the closest thing you can get to a pro team in college, and he played against the best

i would expect a long learning curve from a small school guy (like driver, or janis), haha should be pro ready and up to speed from day one

the problem with adams is that he looked good as a rookie, had tons of hype for year 2, and flopped. he regressed after his first year

No rookie is ready from day one to be all they will be. Personally, I think HHCD has been better than Collins was his first three season, in fact I think he has been a fair amount better. That said, I don't expect him to be as good as Collins became.

Adams has looked quite good this year at times. He is showing quickness in his routes that was never apparent last year. I think he has been what we expected, but did not see, last year. That supports the stories that are coming out more and more this year, that Adams was hurt a lot worse last year than anyone outside the team knew. I can live with that. Nelson had a very similar year #2, a regression from his rookie year.

[Patler]

Like signing Jared Cook?

yup, to replace a guy we lost in 2013

That's only two years, and they weren't ignoring the problem either.

They didn't need a replacement in 2013, because that was the year he was hurt.

In 2014, it was uncertain if he would be back, but they used a high draft pick for a TE who had played WR, and they still had the TE who was good enough for the SB year in 2010. Certainly a reasonable path for the first year without Finley, when his future may have been unclear. The vet regressed and was injured, but the rookie showed possibility not to BE Finley, but to be a contributing TE in his own way.

In 2015 they still had the two from 2014 and they drafted yet another. This was the season that showed they needed to look elsewhere.

In 2016 they signed Cook.

They went two seasons without Finley before getting Cook. I don't see that as a big deal.

In 2015

[Patler]

Well then, make the goddamn arm tackle!

I ain't a physicist, but there's a thing called momentum. If X weighs 245lbs and Y weighs 208 lbs and X is near stationary and Y is dashing toward X unblocked at a high velocity, momentum says upon impact Y will knock the shit out of X, unless of course, Y fucks up.

That fuck up was utterly inexcusable. Dix is, what, 6'1 208 lbs? Tyrion Lannister could've made that play. Dix choked in the clutch, plain and simple.

Yes, the Packers should never fail, just because. I mean its not like the other guys are paid professionals expected to do their jobs, too. Besides, no other defensive player has ever failed to bring Luck down, just Dix.

[pbmax]

Well then, make the goddamn arm tackle!

I ain't a physicist, but there's a thing called momentum. If X weighs 245lbs and Y weighs 208 lbs and X is near stationary and Y is dashing toward X unblocked at a high velocity, momentum says upon impact Y will knock the shit out of X, unless of course, Y fucks up.

That fuck up was utterly inexcusable. Dix is, what, 6'1 208 lbs? Tyrion Lannister could've made that play. Dix choked in the clutch, plain and simple.

You equation is missing the variable for the targets' angular momentum. Luck moved.

[red]

That's only two years, and they weren't ignoring the problem either.

They didn't need a replacement in 2013, because that was the year he was hurt.

In 2014, it was uncertain if he would be back, but they used a high draft pick for a TE who had played WR, and they still had the TE who was good enough for the SB year in 2010. Certainly a reasonable path for the first year without Finley, when his future may have been unclear. The vet regressed and was injured, but the rookie showed possibility not to BE Finley, but to be a contributing TE in his own way.

In 2015 they still had the two from 2014 and they drafted yet another. This was the season that showed they needed to look elsewhere.

In 2016 they signed Cook.

They went two seasons without Finley before getting Cook. I don't see that as a big deal.

In 2015

so, taking a flyer on a 6th round comp pick is trying to realistically fix a major problem to you?

who was this magical TE they had in 2014 that they had for the super bowl? quarless? this is a perfect example of a guy who never was good enough and should have been replaced much earlier then he was. but because he was a TT draft pick, he was made a major factor of the team. even if he never deserved it

most people thought that finelys career was over in 2013, especially after the nick collins injury where the team WOULDN"T bring him back after the exact same injury, even though nick was cleared to play. you might have held out hope in 2014, but the team knew he was done with them in 2013. plus he was a free agent anyways

and i'm one of those that didn't think jermichael was anywhere near as good as he made himself out to be, maybe we shouldn't have settled with him either. to me, he's just another in a long line of packer players that never came close to realizing their potential