Vic Ketchmab calls a spade a spade with fans who live in fantasy

[vince]

If so, that QB is out there somewhere now. I certainly don't see another Aaron Rodgers or even close. Without him, we might not be Browns quality - this years team, but we very well might be Bears quality - consistently mediocre. Whether it's bad luck or whatever, with the exception of Rodgers and maybe Clay Matthews, Thompson hasn't drafted any top level players. Look around at other teams; Just about everybody - with a few lame exceptions - has drafted at least a few more than that. It's not even just about hating to sign high level free agents. It's about just barely getting by instead of maximizing things.

No, it's about maximizing things within the limitations of what the salary cap structure dictates. When you look at the sustained success of this team, suggesting that Ted hasn't done that, after making perhaps the single greatest draft pick in a generation, is staring squarely in the face of an opposite reality.

[pbmax]

And again that speaks to the talent level difference. The Packers are 3-7-1 without Rodgers over the years. Pats without Brady are 14-6. That's no coincidence. You think we win more than a couple games with an entire season of Hundley at qb?

Yes they would. McCathy has optimized his offense for Rodgers talents. He would need to adjust to Hundley, but they would eventually adjust. NE offense is built for more QBs.

The idea that the Packers are only Rodgers away from the Browns is exactly the kind of thinking that makes the Browns the Browns and the Packers the Packers.

[Cheesehead Craig]

We're the Browns without Rodgers? That's my vote for the most Preposterous Statement Of The Year. So laughable.

[vince]

Who cares how or where the players came from?

Going into this year 100% healthy, the Packers were Super Bowl favorites and widely believed to have one of, if not the deepest and most talented roster in the game. That depth has been put to the test at pretty much every position on defense, and it took Nelson and Cook the better part of the season to get healthy and contribute, going 6 deep down the running back depth chart, etc. but the Packers have a talented team. And they're most talented where it counts the most.

Thanks Ted!

[Joemailman]

If so, that QB is out there somewhere now. I certainly don't see another Aaron Rodgers or even close. Without him, we might not be Browns quality - this years team, but we very well might be Bears quality - consistently mediocre. Whether it's bad luck or whatever, with the exception of Rodgers and maybe Clay Matthews, Thompson hasn't drafted any top level players. Look around at other teams; Just about everybody - with a few lame exceptions - has drafted at least a few more than that. It's not even just about hating to sign high level free agents. It's about just barely getting by instead of maximizing things.

No top level players outside of Rodgers and Matthews? He's drafted the following Pro Bowl players:

Aaron Rodgers
Nick Collins
Greg Jennings
Jordy Nelson
Josh Sitton
B.J. Raji
Clay Matthews
T.J. Lang
Eddie Lacy
Ha Ha Clinton Dix

A few others who are close and/or may well make it:

Bryan Bulaga
Morgan Burnett
Randall Cobb
Mike Daniels
David Bakhtiari
Davante Adams

All this while drafting late almost every year because his teams are in the playoffs almost every year.

[vince]

Plus Woodson, Pickett, Grant, Peppers, Cook, Williams, Shields, through acquisition ....

[ThunderDan]

So maybe we might come up to Browns or Bears quality? The Bears have been pretty stable.

Don't take it back just twenty years, as Favre did approximately what Rodgers does now in his era to keep the team near the top. Consider the 80s. I would suggest that's what we'd be like without Aaron Rodgers and with the present rest of the team.

Have you watched the Bears lately? They had a few good years in a long stretch of mediocre. Lovie Smith kept the team in the discussion. They have been a tire fire ever since. They have 3 winning seasons in 10 years. They have won 14 games in the last 3 years.

[gbgary]

again...

draft and develope is fine...IF YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING! the Packers have had needs at certain spots for a long time and they've gone unaddressed for the most part. that's why a change in philosophy/gm is in order or, as i said earlier this year, there's a nuclear winter for the Packers in the not so distant future.

we're going to be drafting at the end of each round again this year, this team has needs that the draft alone CAN'T address, there will be positions opened by retirements and cuts, so FA must be taken advantage of.

did that breeze just change to coming from the north?

[hoosier]

I suspect Tex is thinking about the 2013 team that unexpectedly went belly up when Rodgers broke his collar bone. But McGinn jinxed that team by predicting preseason that it would hold up just fine if the unthinkable were to happen and Rodgers go down. He knows better than to do that with this team. Rather than talk about the roster as a whole, let's look at position units.

OL: clearly one of the best if not the best in pass blocking, and certainly at least adequate as run blockers. Check.
WR: much improved from a year ago thanks to return of Nelson, maturation of Adams and late season return to health of Cook. I would say that this unit is at least above average.
RB: with a healthy Lacy this still would have been a position without much depth because of Starks's sudden decline. Montgomery and Ripkowski are at least serviceable as running options, and the struggle to find a running back after Lacy went down had the salutary effect of forcing McCarthy to redesign the passing game in a way that continues to pay benefits.

DL: One productive vet (Daniels), another serviceable vet (Guion) and two rookies who show potential. The unit doesn't have good depth but they have four guys who can at least contribute something.
OLB: Two good starters and a bunch of projects. Depth is not a strength.
ILB: Two serviceable young starters, one decent sub and a strong safety. Depth is mediocre.
Secondary: When Shields went down and Randall and Rollins got hurt or regressed, Capers invented the amoeba defense starring Micah Hyde and a bunch of F.D. safeties nobody's ever heard of.
Special teams: the patience that TT showed with Crosby looks brilliant now, and Schum has been a pleasant surprise as punter and holder. (Has anyone noticed a single bad hold this year?)

Overall the talent level and depth of this team seem to be better than average.

[texaspackerbacker]

Have you watched the Bears lately? They had a few good years in a long stretch of mediocre. Lovie Smith kept the team in the discussion. They have been a tire fire ever since. They have 3 winning seasons in 10 years. They have won 14 games in the last 3 years.

hahahaha That's what I meant by stable - stable on a low level.

[Rutnstrut]

I have said it a million times. TT doesn't need to go nuts in FA and sign 10 guys and spend a ton of money. But when there are vital positions that need to be filled and players available... Some will argue that he hasn't used FA and they have gotten this far. That is AR and being lucky, one or both will eventually fail.

[denverYooper]

On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to 0.

[ThunderDan]

I have said it a million times. TT doesn't need to go nuts in FA and sign 10 guys and spend a ton of money. But when there are vital positions that need to be filled and players available... Some will argue that he hasn't used FA and they have gotten this far. That is AR and being lucky, one or both will eventually fail.

And yet with that, the luck and AR apparently is still running strong.

Maybe just maybe it isn't luck and AR. Maybe it is a well crafted plan and vision and a little lucky that ARod dropped in the draft but TT had the stones to draft him when you had an MVP, HOF QB as your starter.

[pbmax]

I suspect Tex is thinking about the 2013 team that unexpectedly went belly up when Rodgers broke his collar bone. But McGinn jinxed that team by predicting preseason that it would hold up just fine if the unthinkable were to happen and Rodgers go down. He knows better than to do that with this team. Rather than talk about the roster as a whole, let's look at position units.

OL: clearly one of the best if not the best in pass blocking, and certainly at least adequate as run blockers. Check.
WR: much improved from a year ago thanks to return of Nelson, maturation of Adams and late season return to health of Cook. I would say that this unit is at least above average.
RB: with a healthy Lacy this still would have been a position without much depth because of Starks's sudden decline. Montgomery and Ripkowski are at least serviceable as running options, and the struggle to find a running back after Lacy went down had the salutary effect of forcing McCarthy to redesign the passing game in a way that continues to pay benefits.

DL: One productive vet (Daniels), another serviceable vet (Guion) and two rookies who show potential. The unit doesn't have good depth but they have four guys who can at least contribute something.
OLB: Two good starters and a bunch of projects. Depth is not a strength.
ILB: Two serviceable young starters, one decent sub and a strong safety. Depth is mediocre.
Secondary: When Shields went down and Randall and Rollins got hurt or regressed, Capers invented the amoeba defense starring Micah Hyde and a bunch of F.D. safeties nobody's ever heard of.
Special teams: the patience that TT showed with Crosby looks brilliant now, and Schum has been a pleasant surprise as punter and holder. (Has anyone noticed a single bad hold this year?)

Overall the talent level and depth of this team seem to be better than average.

Given the QBs on the roster, it was beyond dumb.

But a lot of the games were competitive even with Frick and Frack at QB.

[pbmax]

On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to 0.

My replacement cyborg body and mind transference device beg to differ. However, given current laws, we won't be able to settle the bet until CY-pbmax posts in the 2030s.