Defensive needs, in order.....

[bobblehead]

He missed week 4 and 5 with the groin injury tried to play week 6 and tore it again breaking up a pass and was gone until week 12. I am sure you were also one of the fans that decided to burn Adams at the stake last year as well.

And Nick Collins after 2 seasons.

[bobblehead]

No way does Matthews redo that deal without new money or some extraordinary circumstance.

He's coming off injury and a move to ILB, he doesn't want to be on the market this year.

I do think he works better as a ILB/rover.

That is leverage to get him to redo the deal. On the open market he won't make much. Offer him a haircut (fiscally) or cut him. I honestly don't think cutting him makes that D any worse than it was this year. Given his age, production, injury history, I honestly wouldn't be pissed to part ways if he won't take a cut that opens more cap room to sign an FA corner.

[Rutnstrut]

I have always thought and said many times that Clay is overrated and extremely over paid. He's not worth even half of what they are paying him.

[red]

packers have zero leverage with clay

[red]

And Nick Collins after 2 seasons.

nick collins didn't regress after his rookie year, BEFORE THE INJURIES

[pbmax]

That is leverage to get him to redo the deal. On the open market he won't make much. Offer him a haircut (fiscally) or cut him. I honestly don't think cutting him makes that D any worse than it was this year. Given his age, production, injury history, I honestly wouldn't be pissed to part ways if he won't take a cut that opens more cap room to sign an FA corner.

So risk the cap hit, hope you can force an agreement and have an unhappier player for shorter term?

I'd rather cut him outright than do that.

[Bossman641]

Randall will be this year's Adams. Book it

[gbgary]

since apparently Gunter is the only cb we have that can play bump and run it's imperative that they sign/draft another one. giving up 300-400 yards a game and qb ratings of 100+ every game is ridiculous.

[RashanGary]

I remember that. But I also remember him coming up big versus the Giants.

He is almost not a starter because of his limitations. He's not Jarret Bush, but you want him for a utility role not a starting CB or safety. His value is in versatility.

I see Hyde exactly this way. A guy who can plug and play a lot of spots and do it fairly well, but a guy you'd rather not have starting. Good piece because he's so versatile. We will use him at some point on defense. Injuries are 100% guaranteed to happen in the NFL.

[Carolina_Packer]

Randall has some things to square away beside the groin, he had a couple of bad outings early too. But between the groin and his knee, he was not the same guy at the end of the season.

Since you brought up a point I was wondering about, I'll ask you, PB et al. No excuse, just a fact; Randall had injury concerns this year. He often seemed to give a huge cushion in coverage which often seemed to lead to a target for the guy Randall was covering, which lead to replays where Randall looked like he was late on every target to the guy he was covering. He never really seemed like a ball hawk, all over his guy type of player.

Did he play like that because of his injury or because he's processing too much information and not just reacting? If a guy has a groin and knee injuries, is it possible he was giving that cushion to make sure he had time to react/close and "keep things in front of him" but ultimately getting bled by a thousand cuts?

I recall a few plays in his rookie year when he played press man well; where he anticipated well. I saw one such play in person against the Panthers when Cam threw an out route and Randall undercut the route and got a pick when the Packers were trying to come back. Then there was the pick six against the Raiders.

I think sometimes toughing it out and playing through injuries is admirable, showing toughness, but can mask a players true abilities because they just can't go like they are cable of going, but we see them out there, so many think, well he's good enough to be out there, but that doesn't always lead to effective play. We'll know next year should he be able to stay healthy.

[pbmax]

since apparently Gunter is the only cb we have that can play bump and run it's imperative that they sign/draft another one. giving up 300-400 yards a game and qb ratings of 100+ every game is ridiculous.

I would rather get a mix of talent that can play zone and man to man. THAT way, you can matchup in the best possible way.

What I don't know is why this has not happened before. They have tried to use zones before with poor results.

[vince]

Our best defensive players were, this year, in order:

Daniels
Clinton Dix
Perry
Burnett (only because he's steady and reliable)
Peppers (as a situational player)
Matthews (in a couple flash situations, but he's been hobbled)


Honestly, did anyone else make a play? We should get some development out of Randall, Clark, Brice, ILB group, Lowry and many of the seemingly dozen other rookies/2nd year injured on defense.

But we have very little talent on defense. I think that is clear. We might have to make one decent FA move, get some development and have a really good draft. It's gonna take a big off season to fix that defense. The offense carried us.

I think you're overrating Dix personally. He was completely invisible the first half of the season. He did come on strong with some (mostly gimme) picks and did start to get some confidence about him as a tackler, but he also was caught out of position and/or a step slow on a number of occasions. The game started to slow down for him the second half, but I can't forget some of the plays he missed that cost the Packers games - Not being able to take down Luck at a crucial time in that game.... Not being able to handle the deflected pass he should have picked off that would have sealed the Falcons game...

I think the safeties maybe look better than they are to many because they're compared to the horrid play of the corners this year.

[Upnorth]

In the first round we need to take the best available CB with good hands, Pass rushing OLB or coverage MLB.
Then in the second its the same imo.

[Teamcheez1]

So risk the cap hit, hope you can force an agreement and have an unhappier player for shorter term?

I'd rather cut him outright than do that.

In regards to Matthews:

There are two years left on his contract.
His 2017 salary will be $15.2M (with $4.1M in dead cap).
His 2018 salary will be $11.4M with no dead cap money.

He will be 31 this next season. I saw on ESPN, that Matthews is one of the 4 highest paid LB's in the NFL (this came up on the Jamie Collins LB Browns, who just signed a new contract).

I think the Packers should let it ride for 2017, but all bets are off for 2018 depending on his performance (and health) this next season.

[Deputy Nutz]

nick collins didn't regress after his rookie year, BEFORE THE INJURIES

I know you struggle in this condition to actually process what you read so I will state it again. He dealt with the groin injury from the 3rd week of the season on. He missed a total of 7 games and had surgery in the middle of the season. His play was sub par I don't think anyone is telling you any different, but I think there are significant reasons for it. If you want to watch two football games at the beginning of the season and say that he was bound to suck for the rest of his pro career, go ahead it doesn't really matter what we think.