6 DOWN 10 TO GO---TAKE TWO---HOW MANY WINS DOES GB END UP WITH

[Smidgeon]

do I have to do everything?

Yep. Gratitude and all that.

[Smidgeon]

I can't agree with that. I think Rodgers had a lot more going for him in 2008 than Hundley has right now.

In 2008, Clifton started 15 games, Tauscher 13. Colledge and Spitz both started all 16. Wells started 13. Colledge and Spitz were in their third years as starters, Wells his fourth. Clifton and Tauscher were in their primes. Josh Sitton had two starts as a backup rookie, Tony Mall the other 5 (3rd year, 13 previous starts.). Jennings and Driver had 15 and 16 starts, respectively. Behind them were Jones (following a good rookie year) and Nelson (rookie). Ryan Grant was in his second year, played all 16 games and had 1200 yards rushing. Donald Lee was in the middle of his 9 year career.

The offense was far ahead of what Hundley may have in terms of health, experience and reliability. The o line in 2008 had just 7 different players who played much, and only 7 starts by backups bu just two different players. Hundley quite possibly will have the 6th and 7th tackles as his starters and the #4 and 5 guards. His o line could be an absolute mess.

The defense in 2008 gave away a lot of games (as did STs), yet they had Kampman, Picket, Jolly, Hawk, Woodson and Collins starting for all 16 games. Kampman was still a sack artist, Woodson and Collins had 7 interceptions, each. Harris was still starting (12 games). Tramon Williams was the #3 CB and had 9 starts. It wasn't under transition at the time.

In 2008 it seemed like everything went wrong, every game.

You're right. I was confusing the roster that year with the one a few years prior.

But it still emphasizes my point: first year starters don't always do well, and if Rodgers couldn't even pull off 0.500 in his first year (with perhaps better on-field talent), why are we expecting Hundley to do so and why would the backup QB plan be a failure if he doesn't?

[Smidgeon]

Yeah I was confused by that too. However, how then do you account for 2013, when after the Rodgers injury the team did indeed play at a stink-out-loud level? Was the 2013 talent all that different from 2012 and 2014?

And yet they still in a position to win the division when the other teams in the NFC North decided they didn't want it.

[mraynrand]

You're right. I was confusing the roster that year with the one a few years prior.

But it still emphasizes my point: first year starters don't always do well, and if Rodgers couldn't even pull off 0.500 in his first year (with perhaps better on-field talent), why are we expecting Hundley to do so and why would the backup QB plan be a failure if he doesn't?

Maybe Hundley is better at this stage of his career. (I don't think this is true, but it could be). Rodgers had that great outing in Dallas to hint how good he would be. Still, don't forget that Rodgers was no slouch in 2008 - maybe compared to his now amazing standards, but he had 4000+ yards, 28TDs, 13INTs 64% completion rate, and a passer rating over 90. I'd take that from Hundley in a heartbeat.

[pbmax]

Someone needs to find a pic of Brian Dowling wearing the #12 Packer jersey. I almost fell out of my chair when the all time roster spit him out.

All time great at Yale. Also inspired two comic versions of himself.

[beveaux1]

I can't agree with that. I think Rodgers had a lot more going for him in 2008 than Hundley has right now.

In 2008, Clifton started 15 games, Tauscher 13. Colledge and Spitz both started all 16. Wells started 13. Colledge and Spitz were in their third years as starters, Wells his fourth. Clifton and Tauscher were in their primes. Josh Sitton had two starts as a backup rookie, Tony Mall the other 5 (3rd year, 13 previous starts.). Jennings and Driver had 15 and 16 starts, respectively. Behind them were Jones (following a good rookie year) and Nelson (rookie). Ryan Grant was in his second year, played all 16 games and had 1200 yards rushing. Donald Lee was in the middle of his 9 year career.

The offense was far ahead of what Hundley may have in terms of health, experience and reliability. The o line in 2008 had just 7 different players who played much, and only 7 starts by backups bu just two different players. Hundley quite possibly will have the 6th and 7th tackles as his starters and the #4 and 5 guards. His o line could be an absolute mess.

The defense in 2008 gave away a lot of games (as did STs), yet they had Kampman, Picket, Jolly, Hawk, Woodson and Collins starting for all 16 games. Kampman was still a sack artist, Woodson and Collins had 7 interceptions, each. Harris was still starting (12 games). Tramon Williams was the #3 CB and had 9 starts. It wasn't under transition at the time.

In 2008 it seemed like everything went wrong, every game.

I had this thought right after the injury occured. I have a hard time believing that Hundley is at the same level as Rodgers was in 2008. I know that this beat up team is not at that level. I think it will be the best coaching job MM has ever accomplished if they can win 4 more games this season.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Hundley's arm might be about as strong as Arod's, but his accuracy can't be anywhere near Arod's, especially since he's been sitting the bench for 3 years. I'm thinking that means way more INT's than we're used to.

[Zool]

Fuck did I hate it when this douche signed. I still don't like it today.

[Patler]

You're right. I was confusing the roster that year with the one a few years prior.

But it still emphasizes my point: first year starters don't always do well, and if Rodgers couldn't even pull off 0.500 in his first year (with perhaps better on-field talent), why are we expecting Hundley to do so and why would the backup QB plan be a failure if he doesn't?

Yup. If Hundley is out there with the same o-line that finished in MN, my expectations will have more to do with them than with Hundley.

I think they can play well enough on offense with Hundley, but not if Taylor, Bakhtiari and Bulaga are on the sideline. However, the offense won't be good enough to win many shoot outs, so King and Burnett have got to return.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers' injury occurred with Taylor, Bakhtiari, and Bulaga all playing, right?

[Rutnstrut]

Rodgers' injury occurred with Taylor, Bakhtiari, and Bulaga all playing, right?

Couldn't have, they are all cream of the crop.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rodgers' injury occurred with Taylor, Bakhtiari, and Bulaga all playing, right?

B & B were getting treatment throughout game. They were 75%

[Pugger]

No, the difference is the other franchises stink out loud for multiple years with possible/probably HoF QBs and the Packers are in the playoffs every year.

But to Packer fans, its only due to luck that Thompson stumbled onto Rodgers that they succeed.

It isn't just Packers fans who believe this.

[Pugger]

I found a link to this article on another Packers' forum and I thought it was interesting. The author is addressing the notion our roster stinks outside of Rodgers. He notes that the assessment of the players is when they are healthy and not how the situation is right now.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2017/10/17/16489706/breaking-the-narrative-aaron-rodgers-injury-packers-talent-acquisition-development-ted-thompson

[Smidgeon]

It isn't just Packers fans who believe this.

No kidding. How does Sean Payton get a pass for his terrible years with Brees?