other games (week 8)...

[mraynrand]

All for a switch to a 4-3 and a new DC. I just think the 3-4 lends itself to DCs getting too cute with their calls and makes a defense more complicated than it needs to be especially for their own players. Thus you get what we have when seemingly players are playing different coverage on far too many plays.

Capers and Trgo both told me they like versatility and the ability to play multiple fronts and looks with the exact same personnel on the field. For example, Peppers and Perry can play DE or OLB. But honestly, mostly these two look silly dropping into coverage, even though Peppers made a play or two there. They do get too cute with the zone blitz looks sometimes, but really, the problem is more personnel than scheme. Packers have some good solid players, but very little exceptionalism. That's why Peppers stood out so much. Because when he was on, he could make athletic plays, get that strip/sack recovery, get that INT. Clay used to be able to do that, but it appears that's mostly gone. Perry is great against the run, and can generate some pressure, but he needs help to really stand out routinely.

The article Maxi posted suggested man coverage. Man or Zone, if this defense can't generate pressure, they are going to continue to get shredded by crossing patterns.

[mraynrand]

How would Clark and Daniels do in a 4-3? Right now, they are both playing outstandingly, taking on double teams and winning the battles.

It would be nice to see some pressure from the outside so that they can't be doubled so much.

[ThunderDan]

All for a switch to a 4-3 and a new DC. I just think the 3-4 lends itself to DCs getting too cute with their calls and makes a defense more complicated than it needs to be especially for their own players. Thus you get what we have when seemingly players are playing different coverage on far too many plays.

But if you look at our D we really are playing a 4 man front 65% of the time. Two DL and the two OLB playing up on the line.

Watching the PITT game last night what stood out to me is that they would put 5 or 6 guys on the line on passing downs and then drop some back. DET never knew where the pass rush was coming from. DET's OL was able to handle the confusion but most teams so far this year haven't been able to figure it out.

[Joemailman]

How would Clark and Daniels do in a 4-3? Right now, they are both playing outstandingly, taking on double teams and winning the battles.

I think Daniels, Clark and Lowry would be a very good DT trio in a 4-3. I don't think they should necessarily go to a 4-3. I think they should find the best DC candidate available out there, regardless of whether he favors a 4-3 or 3-4.

[mraynrand]

But if you look at our D we really are playing a 4 man front 65% of the time. Two DL and the two OLB playing up on the line.

Watching the PITT game last night what stood out to me is that they would put 5 or 6 guys on the line on passing downs and then drop some back. DET never knew where the pass rush was coming from. DET's OL was able to handle the confusion but most teams so far this year haven't been able to figure it out.

But several of those guys have to be able to both rush the passer and reasonably cover. Steelers can do that with You, Me and Dupree (Shazier, and Watt, and Bud Dupree) as well as others.

The author pretty much is saying that Josh Jones should play LB instead of Jake Ryan. Some of us have suggested that long ago. He could be like a faster Shazier. Don't know how he stands up to the run over the long haul...

[run pMc]

bears TE zach miller could lose his leg after dislocating his knee yesterday

doctors are trying hard to save it

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/doctors-reportedly-fighting-save-bears-te-zach-millers-leg-injury-133453600.html

Wow. Just wow. I hope they can save his leg. That's a scary/terrible injury. Don't care what team he plays for, that's just horrible.

[Maxie the Taxi]

All for a switch to a 4-3 and a new DC. I just think the 3-4 lends itself to DCs getting too cute with their calls and makes a defense more complicated than it needs to be especially for their own players. Thus you get what we have when seemingly players are playing different coverage on far too many plays.

I agree with this. Years ago when Capers arrived his scheming put pressure on opposing QB's and DC's because they'd have to attack something they might not have seen before or something they weren't too accustomed to. Now I think Capers 3/4 is just too easy to figure out. Teams have seen it and can deal with it.

I also like the idea of wearing down the other guy's fat guys with four fat guys of our own on every down. That way when they do rush a LB or two, it will be unexpected and probably more effective. We just need a more consistent push up front.

I also think it simplifies things which would allow our defensive guys to be thinking less and reacting more.

To work well Capers' system requires big guys who are exceptional athletes at LB like Peppers, Matthews and Perry. There's not too many of that type guy around, especially at the position we usually draft.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Another advantage of a simplified 4/3 defense just occurred to me. That is that when injuries occur it wouldn't screw up our defense as much. The learning curve wouldn't be as steep and assignments wouldn't be missed by the replacements so frequently.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think the lack of pass rush has been more a matter of Clay Matthews being a step slower, Perry having a low ceiling, talent-wise, Peppers being gone, and Fackrell being generally mediocre than a matter of scheme. It's a long shot, but hopoefully Vince Biegel can provide some pass rush help. I have always been a supporter of Capers, and I still think his scheming is the only thing saving the Packers from a worse case of mediocrity on defense.

A 4-3 is usually a lot more dependent on talent - beating your opponent straight up - than the 3-4 where there is flexibility for scheming, and we seem to be lacking in talent.

[MadScientist]

But if you look at our D we really are playing a 4 man front 65% of the time. Two DL and the two OLB playing up on the line.

Watching the PITT game last night what stood out to me is that they would put 5 or 6 guys on the line on passing downs and then drop some back. DET never knew where the pass rush was coming from. DET's OL was able to handle the confusion but most teams so far this year haven't been able to figure it out.

This is what I always thought the 3-4 was all about. You rush your 3 down guys plus one other, but which of the 4 LB's rush is unpredictable. By picking supposed DE/LB hybrids, you lose flexibility and the system effectively becomes a mediocre 4-3. It can still work if some players are exceptional, but the Packers don't have any exceptional pass rushers in the front 7.

The result of bad personnel decisions is even more predictable than the Packers defense.

[MadScientist]

[QUOTE=red;947171]bears TE zach miller could lose his leg after dislocating his knee yesterday

doctors are trying hard to save it

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/doctors-reportedly-fighting-save-bears-te-zach-millers-leg-injury-133453600.html

That picture was so awful I had to block it. I really wish Miller the best for his recovery and hope the leg can be saved. It's like his knee did what Bridgewater's did last year, except there was a guy on him.

[Freak Out]

Wow....it's a real stomach turner.

[red]

sounds like the bear staff on the field knew just how bad it was and rushed him straight to the hospital

the bears came out with a statement saying that the surgery was successful. so i think that means he shouldn't lose his leg, but the career might still be up in the air

just a nasty freak injury that could happen to almost any player on any play

[mraynrand]

How does Caldwell still have a job?

He could have won that game with 7 field goals, if he had just kept his robotic, emotionless sensibilities for one more play.

He'll feel better next Monday. Detroit won't have red zone problem with Green Bay. John Gruden will be loving every member of the Lions offense: "Just an outstanding player, Sean, one of the best I've ever seen"

[pbmax]

sounds like the bear staff on the field knew just how bad it was and rushed him straight to the hospital

the bears came out with a statement saying that the surgery was successful. so i think that means he shouldn't lose his leg, but the career might still be up in the air

just a nasty freak injury that could happen to almost any player on any play

Can you confirm that they are not now going to amputate his leg below the knee? What do sources close to you say?