Studs And Duds - Packers vs. Bucs

[yetisnowman]

Studs- Williams...hard aggressive running all day.
O-line......managed to create enough wiggle room in the run game in spite of zero passing game.
Jones- Made your opportunity count.
Clay-active, aggressive, productive.
Randall- quick, reactive enough to make a few key plays.
Lowery- play of the game.
Duds- Hundley-Easy throws missed. 70 yds passing in 4. quarters of nfl football is just pathetic and inexcusable.
Haha- become my least favorite packer to watch. Lazy, soft, always out of position.
Jordy- kind of an asterisk on this one. He's paid his dues, but he is just a shell of his former self. No speed no separation.
Cobb- other than a mindless busted coverage the guy has been 100% invisible for weeks. Non factor.

[wist43]

Martinez is a poor player??

No instincts... not a play maker.

Very pedestrian player.

[pbmax]

Let's just note something up front: we have drifted from the original point.

Harlan: The packer run defense was weak. Not sure where dud lies.

wist: Some of that is Capers and the weak fronts he likes to play, but regardless of personnel on either side - Martinez and Ryan were pathetic.

So we are now onto screens. He is a screenshot of the play in the second quarter with 7:12 or so left in the half.

Ryan peels back straight and does not keep his eyes in the backfield as wist noted and as Martinez and Jones both do. But there is a reason. His zone is immediately threatened by receiver. He's hustling back to cover him.

The Bucs know this is going to happen which is why they leak the RB out to the weak side of the defense. They have occupied the onside ILB. The offside ILB (Ponch) along with the box safety (Jones) have to cross the field to make a play. Its very well designed. Now Ryan would be well served to not buy the run fake as much and retreat with a backpedal, but he knows there is a receiver headed for his zone and wide open. So he takes care of Job #1 (run), then Job #2 (zone space). Eyes forward would help but it would still be his third key.

The real culprit is Morgan Burnett who is at first mesmerized by the receiver crossing into Ryan and then takes a baffling angle around the blocker to leave the RB an unimpeded path down the seam. Now Morgan might have been expecting inside support from Ryan, but that is a hell of a position to be in. More likely, as we saw at other times, another Packer should have been prepared to follow the back in coverage since the weak side was outnumbered.

That would be Martinez likely.

However this has nothing to do with instincts. Its technique for Ryan and recognition for Martinez. Something younger players will get better at. Or Burnett could have stepped forward instead of run around a block.

The problem I have is that since King was sidelined, this is the second game were this type of screen action has been very successful. They have to adjust or it will keep happening. Teams are successfully scheming that zone to death right now. The only upside is that if you aren't named Whitehead, they have kept the damage in front of them.


Going to need to find a replacement for photo bucket. so hold the phones

[run pMc]

This isn't the first time they've struggled against screens. Saints did this earlier, no shock others tested the D to see if they "cleaned it up".
Not impressed with Whitehead.

[bobblehead]

I am a lot less enthusiastic now for him than I was prior to the log. Kinda brutal. He's going to get to start, but if Baranczyk in his film breakdown said he was limiting the Packer offense to certain calls, I would believe it.

I was with you on the Sherrod Bandwagon, but spriggs is like Fackrell. Long lanky athletic white guys who need to gain weight are bad prospects. Spriggs has no anchor. And he is surprisingly unathletic for a lanky athletic guy.

[Pugger]

No instincts... not a play maker.

Very pedestrian player.

If he is pedestrian then why is he ranked 4th in the league in tackles?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=TACKLES&conference=null&season=2017&seasonType=REG

[Rutnstrut]

If he is pedestrian then why is he ranked 4th in the league in tackles?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...seasonType=REG

I think he's pretty good, but. Someone has to make the tackles that others aren't, so...

[wist43]

If he is pedestrian then why is he ranked 4th in the league in tackles?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...seasonType=REG

Coz he's making them 5+ yds downfield.

Like the play I asked max to look at... Ryan will get credited with a tackle on that play - after he gave up a 34 yd catch and run b/c he had no clue what the offense was doing.

Neither player steps up and fills; both players wait to absorb blockers; both players routinely run themselves out of plays; neither player is a play maker...

The tape doesn't lie... neither of our ILB's is very good.

[Zool]

Martinez isn't an all-pro but he's a mid level starter. Of course you can do better but you can do a lot worse too.

Ryan makes a lot of bad decisions and is turned around often. Maybe it's scheme, maybe it's him, or maybe it's both. I think both. The Packers zone is a joke. They haven't covered a tight end in....how long has Capers been around? Crossing routes have been open for a solid decade.

[mraynrand]

Crossing routes have been open for a solid decade.

yep. Opposition knows they just have to drag a receiver from one end to the other and eventually he'll be open. No pressure, easy completion.

[Pugger]

Martinez isn't an all-pro but he's a mid level starter. Of course you can do better but you can do a lot worse too.

Ryan makes a lot of bad decisions and is turned around often. Maybe it's scheme, maybe it's him, or maybe it's both. I think both. The Packers zone is a joke. They haven't covered a tight end in....how long has Capers been around? Crossing routes have been open for a solid decade.

Yes, I know wist doesn't much care for our defense but Martinez isn't the as terrible as he is suggesting. He might make some tackles 5 yards late but at least he makes a damn tackle. That can't be said for a number of the others.

[pbmax]

Let's just note something up front: we have drifted from the original point.



So we are now onto screens. He is a screenshot of the play in the second quarter with 7:12 or so left in the half.

Ryan peels back straight and does not keep his eyes in the backfield as wist noted and as Martinez and Jones both do. But there is a reason. His zone is immediately threatened by receiver. He's hustling back to cover him.

The Bucs know this is going to happen which is why they leak the RB out to the weak side of the defense. They have occupied the onside ILB. The offside ILB (Ponch) along with the box safety (Jones) have to cross the field to make a play. Its very well designed. Now Ryan would be well served to not buy the run fake as much and retreat with a backpedal, but he knows there is a receiver headed for his zone and wide open. So he takes care of Job #1 (run), then Job #2 (zone space). Eyes forward would help but it would still be his third key.

The real culprit is Morgan Burnett who is at first mesmerized by the receiver crossing into Ryan and then takes a baffling angle around the blocker to leave the RB an unimpeded path down the seam. Now Morgan might have been expecting inside support from Ryan, but that is a hell of a position to be in. More likely, as we saw at other times, another Packer should have been prepared to follow the back in coverage since the weak side was outnumbered.

That would be Martinez likely.

However this has nothing to do with instincts. Its technique for Ryan and recognition for Martinez. Something younger players will get better at. Or Burnett could have stepped forward instead of run around a block.

The problem I have is that since King was sidelined, this is the second game were this type of screen action has been very successful. They have to adjust or it will keep happening. Teams are successfully scheming that zone to death right now. The only upside is that if you aren't named Whitehead, they have kept the damage in front of them.


Going to need to find a replacement for photo bucket. so hold the phones

Twitter to the rescue!

[pbmax]

Other notes:

1. Ryan has not turned his back to the LOS. He has turned it to the power side. If there are receivers in adjacent areas to him, he could see them.
2. Except for a screen on the LOS. Martinez doesn't see this until he sees the throw. Jones can see it because being the farthest away, he has the best angle.

So could Ryan's technique have been better. Probably. He wants his body turned so he can see that receiver and the QB's release like Martinez is setup.

The Packers could be playing some kinda matchup zone underneath, where Ryan's job is to follow that receiver. But then someone else fails, like Burnett or Martinez.

The fact that screens like this have been successful for a few weeks probably means there is something missing in the design of this coverage. And there could be a technique tweak needed for Ryan in coverage.

But this is not evidence that they are failures or lack instincts. Their run D rank is very good so they aren't two Barnett's always dragging the guy down after five yards.

[wist43]

My God, lol... you're ultimate rationalizer.

Dom is the man for u max... no doubt about that

P.S. Your breakdown of that play is for shit.

[Zool]

Twitter to the rescue!

I can't tell which argument you're making here. Martinez and Jones are playing zone while Ryan is looking at and running to cover 1 guy. Maybe I'm a novice but in every scheme I've played and watched, the LBs are responsible for the RBs coming out of the backfield.

This looks like a classic "DO YOU JOB" fuckup by Ryan. Remember the Hawk and Barnett days, we're back there again.