Who should be the next GM?

[Bretsky]

A lot of speculation right now that Russ Ball is the front-runner.

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018...ckers-next-gm/
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sport...gm/1000141001/

Puke

Would b very different from GB"s decisions of the past...to hire ass kissin admin/ Finance guy over personnel experts.

Puke

I'd rather keep Ted Thompson

[Joemailman]

Puke

Would b very different from GB"s decisions of the past...to hire ass kissin admin/ Finance guy over personnel experts.

Puke

I'd rather keep Ted Thompson

I'm pretty confident Murphy wouldn't hire as GM someone who is just an accountant. Ball has reportedly been working with Thompson more in recent years on personnel matters. He clearly would need a right-hand man with a background in scouting. It's a situation that could be made to work.

[woodbuck27]

It sure seems to be Russ Ball as the Leader and the eventual promotion from within as the next Packer GM.

There is a lot of Hush Hush always in Green Bay. The sudden announcement at the end of the Season that MM was actually and 'quietly extended' another Year in his Contract through 2018 to the 2019 Season is a surprize and Russ Ball would have had a hand in that decision.

Russ Ball worked close with Ted Thompson and evidently was learning about handling Personnel.

Accountants are notoriously conservative and close mouthed. That would fall perfectly in line with 'the Packer Way'

Russ Ball as GM would most likely protect Mike McCarthy for the full remaining Contract or to the completion of the 2019 Season. An outside hire would in all possibility change MM''s Job Security.

So if I'm correct how are Eliot Wolf and Brian Gutekunst going to react to this?

I looked at this another way.

Hire Eliot Wolf as GM and maybe lose Brian Gutekunst (they have already lost Alonzo Highsmith) but Russ Ball remains.

Hire Russ Ball and why would Eliot Wolf and Brian Gutekunst stay in GreenBay if an opportunity arose elsewhere?

This is tricky stuff.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm pretty confident Murphy wouldn't hire as GM someone who is just an accountant. Ball has reportedly been working with Thompson more in recent years on personnel matters. He clearly would need a right-hand man with a background in scouting. It's a situation that could be made to work.

Agreed 100%. It is strange to break precedent though when it's been very successful the last 25 years. I say precedent and not coincidence because I can think of numerous times when management has talked about how having a football guy to run the football org was critically important.

[Bretsky]

Agreed 100%. It is strange to break precedent though when it's been very successful the last 25 years. I say precedent and not coincidence because I can think of numerous times when management has talked about how having a football guy to run the football org was critically important.

If you look at past GM hires in Green Bay they have always stressed the importance of having a person in charge with a background in personnel

Russ Ball, beyond the popular Porderpuffng clichés of him working with TT on some personnel the past couple years (AND YOU CAN CHOOSE TO SPIN THAT HOW YOU WANT) does not have that expertise.

The more I read the more people think that whole thing is just a façade....MM and TT have been discussing this...TT has become best buddies with Russ Ball, and M Murphy's decision is most likely already made. This all seems be the consensus. LOGIC would dictate if we want a personnel guy who I more active in Free Agency Russ Ball is NOT that guy.

I listed to a long interview with Andrew Brandt today on ESPN. Russ Ball replaced Andrew Brandt.

Brandt was hired throuht the Ron Wolf Tree. He noted how much he thinks the world of Reggie McKenzie, John Dorsey and John Schneider and noted if GB hired them based on their experiences we could expect a more aggressive means in free agency.

He also told fun stories on how E Wolf loved/craved personnel evaluation. He was evaluating film in high school for free, and about 13 years ago ahead of one of the draft E Wolf was really excited and dragged Andrew Brandit into the film room on draft day and said "LOOK AT THIS GUY'S MOVES......WE ARE GOING TO DRAFT THIS GUY IN ROUND TWO and he's going to be an amazing Green Bay Packer for many years. He craves personell with a passion.

That guy was Greg Jennings.

Andrew Brandt went on to note GB has a strong personnel staff, even after losing the three guys who were there with him and Ron Wolf (and Ted Thompson). And both will be sought after for other jobs.

There are plenty of Andrew Brandts and Russ Ball's out there and they are very replaceable. I really don't care much if Russ Ball leaves; but I don't want to lose talented NFL Evaluators.

The GB Packer GM job should be an elite job. We better dam well hire an elite personnel guy, whether it be within GB or from the outsde.

But many in the NFL circles seem to think TT has made the choice, and his buddy Russ Ball is our next GM and Mark Marphy will just follow Ted's choice.

I hope they are wrong; but the handwriting seems to be going up on the wall.

[Bretsky]

I'm pretty confident Murphy wouldn't hire as GM someone who is just an accountant. Ball has reportedly been working with Thompson more in recent years on personnel matters. He clearly would need a right-hand man with a background in scouting. It's a situation that could be made to work.

Are you buying into the circle talk of working with Ted Thompson ? It's a very nice and convenient spin things to go along with Mark (who may soon deserve the nickname of "THE PUPPET) Murphy going out of his way to note a few times they will look at guys without the Personnel Background .

Nine Months Ago Mike McCarthy was saying this is the best depth hes seen in GB at Outside Linebacker as well.

I agree with your premise anything can work. We have Aaron Rodgers and need to surround him with a hell of a lot more talent. Hire the Best Personnell Guy; at least you'll have one leading the charge then.

Hire Russ Ball, and if the next two look for other opportunities it could easily blow up.....if not this year, in the next couple.

BRING BACK BOB HARLAN; HE"D HIRE A PERSONNELL GUY FOR SURE.

DEAR BOB, WHEREARE YOU ??

[Bretsky]

AND ONE MORETHING.....AROD HAS WHAT....3...5....7 Elite Years Left

HIRE A GM WITH SOME URGENCY TO WIN THE BIG SHOW SOON

I don't think that's the cap guy

[mraynrand]

He also told fun stories on how E Wolf loved/craved personnel evaluation. He was evaluating film in high school for free, and about 13 years ago ahead of one of the draft E Wolf was really excited and dragged Andrew Brandit into the film room on draft day and said "LOOK AT THIS GUY'S MOVES......WE ARE GOING TO DRAFT THIS GUY IN ROUND TWO and he's going to be an amazing Green Bay Packer for many years. He craves personell with a passion.

That guy was Greg Jennings.

Did Eliot Wolf evaluate Jenning's sister?

[Bretsky]

Did Eliot Wolf evaluate Jenning's sister?

apparently not...lol

is she hot ?

[pbmax]

that was tough to read; but if my impression of Murphy is correct (aka....has no stones and worshipped the ground Ted walks on) this would not surprise me.

Why is that your impression? He just put out everyone's first or second worst bogeyman to pasture. Why does that make him Ted's puppet?

And second, if Ted was not enemy #1, wouldn't being Ted's puppet (manipulated by the personnel side of the Force) be better than being Murphy's puppet (nameless, faceless, bean counter management side of the Force)?

[woodbuck27]

AND ONE MORETHING.....AROD HAS WHAT....3...5....7 Elite Years Left

HIRE A GM WITH SOME URGENCY TO WIN THE BIG SHOW SOON

I don't think that's the cap guy

If Mark Murphy gets this one wrong; it's not going to be good.

The Green Bay Packers are a Pro Football Franchise of distinction not a fricken' Bank.

Murphy needs to hire the very best Personnel Man available and forget the darn Comfort Club approach. Aaron Rodgers needs to be provided with much more talent and that will take an aggressive and very football smart GM.

Let the Bean Counter remain as the Bean Counter.

Russ Ball isn't the way to go.

[mraynrand]

If Mark Murphy gets this one wrong; it's not going to be good.

you sold out to the TRUTH

[pbmax]

A few notes on Russ Ball and the evaluation side of the personnel department.

1. Russ Ball got his start on the coaching staff of Marty Schotttenheimer. He moved to Strength and Conditioning with Redman while there. His background isn't that of a CPA, he has a masters from Missouri in Physiology. He spent two years working as Schottenjeimers assistant, 8 with the trainers, and then moved to the front office.

He played college football as an offensive lineman, which means he might know more football than any Packers scout save the former NFL guys like Highsmith.

2. McCarthy has recommended him for two jobs and Thompson hired him for one of them.

3. You cannot be honest and claim Ted's drafting has been terrible, and claim Ted has been debilitated with illness AND still believe having a super scout as GM is the answer to all that ails the Packers. Dorsey, Schneider and McKenzie all have had worse drafts than Ted in the last 6 years. All have spent money foolishly on FAs. Either personnel people are prone to occasional mistakes and down years (or all are somehow on the verge of mental collapse), or Ted's errors are not egregious enough to want him fired for cause.

You want proof? Look at Wolf's drafts from the Super Bowl era through to 2001.

4. Thompson and Murphy both have given Ball more jobs and better titles/pay. Both the Super Scout AND the administrator like him.

5. Russ Ball was reportedly a force behind getting Adams and Linsley signed this year AND signing the FAs from last year.

6. The best trait a GM needs is clear minded decision making. Being a scout is no guarantee of that. Clear minded decision making with great personnel people informing you is not a bad setup for the future.

7. The GM doesn't have to make the call alone on draft day.

8. He has worked for KC, Minnesota, Washington and the Saints. None of the personnel people inside 1265 know anything other than the Packers. If I had to lay a bet on who continues Ted's exact method, it would be the guys who have never seen anything else.


You want the down side?

1. Harlan did indeed decide he wanted personnel background on top to help stop the Packers annual failure of drafting even with high picks. I put great stock in this because Harlan found the way out of the wilderness. There are two successful non-personnel people in charge of teams as GM, Mickey Loomis (Saints) and Howie Roseman (Eagles). There have been several failures. Its not that much of a track record.

2. Russ Ball has been the executive in charge of strength and training for a while now. While the issue has been mitigated since the utter catastrophes of the 2010-2013 era, its still been a very mixed bag of results. So he has overseen improvement (the crisis after the Super Bowl year was the catalyst for the change), but they aren't at the top of the health charts yet.

3. Who will be the cap guy after Ball? Ball is one of the best and the GM cannot do both jobs.

[pbmax]

There are plenty of Andrew Brandts and Russ Ball's out there and they are very replaceable. I really don't care much if Russ Ball leaves; but I don't want to lose talented NFL Evaluators.

Name the best cap guys in the League beside Ball and Brandt:


Name the guys who might be as good as Ted at personnel evaluation:


Here are my answers.

CAP: no idea

Scout: Schneider, McKenzie, Dorsey, Wolf the Younger, Gutekunst, Highsmith, McCloughan. And that is just the Packers. How about outside the org? Ozzie was a pro football personnel guy like Reggie for a while, Belicheat, Jim Finks, whoever survived the triangle of authority in Minnesota (Brezhnev?)

Looked at through the limited knowledge of the fan, there are unending lists of good talent evaluators. But some of them were terrible choices for GM. Because the job is completely different, requiring a discerning mind, not a mind just for film evaluation.

[BZnDallas]

At this point I think I want Eliot Wolf as the GM and give what ever hats are left over to Russ Ball. Im not buying the argument that TT disciples won't use FA. There are plenty of examples out there of TT guys getting GM jobs and using draft and FA. Schneider, McKenzie, and Dorsey all brought/bring in FAs.