A catch is a catch

[mraynrand]

See I think we don't want them to think about long enough for possession. Its going to be uneven. I want to reward knocking the ball loose on a catch, even if almost simultaneously, with a fumble.

I'm fine with this. But there has to at least be a discernible catch before the ball gets punched out. Unless they make some stupid rule like a "football move" it's going to be subject to the Ref's judgement. The emphasis could simply be that they accept minimal control as a completed reception.

How about this: Receiver leaps for ball, catches it, and ball is knocked out before the receiver returns to touch the ground. Under PBMax/Rand rule this is a catch and fumble. Would the league ever agree to this?

[pbmax]

I'm fine with this. But there has to at least be a discernible catch before the ball gets punched out. Unless they make some stupid rule like a "football move" it's going to be subject to the Ref's judgement. The emphasis could simply be that they accept minimal control as a completed reception.

How about this: Receiver leaps for ball, catches it, and ball is knocked out before the receiver returns to touch the ground. Under PBMax/Rand rule this is a catch and fumble. Would the league ever agree to this?

I am OK with control and a body part down before completion. And that's it.

But you are still going to have slo-mo debates about control when the second foot hits the ground. That Corey Clement TD in the SB was a hugely questionable catch (which I was entirely delighted to see it called and ruled a TD). Its not entirely certain he had control for the first foot down (right) because he barely had a grip then bobbled a bit through second step (left) regained control finally before the third step (right toe) looked OOB.

I say it a catch because he maintained possession without it ever touching the ground and I am fine with control before he went OOB.

But then I am saying a lot of bobbling catches (including Larry Bleeping Fitzgerald) are catches when they head OOB.

[pbmax]

People who think the rule change will end debate or clear up what is a catch are in for a rude awakening. Again.

[pbmax]

Mike Tanier @MikeTanier
Other language recommended to clarify the catch rule:

Intent to receive
Connectivity
Catchyness
Catchitude
Establishment of bipedalism
Heisenberg Catchosity Principle.

@EGTuna @EGTuna
How could you forget Schroedinger’s Catch?!

[pbmax]

Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL
"The ability to perform such an act". At least we removed any ambiguity. [thumbs down] Ross Tucker added,

Mike Tanier @MikeTanier
"He could have done that."
"In fact, he could have caught that."
"So, by strict interpretation of the rules, it's a catch."

[Harlan Huckleby]

People who think the rule change will end debate or clear up what is a catch are in for a rude awakening. Again.

He bobbled the ball - no control. Not hard. (rude gesture)

[Harlan Huckleby]

I am OK with control and a body part down before completion. And that's it.

Sounds good. It doesn't have to be any more complicated. I like one foot down. You get more exciting games with more acrobatic catches.

[pbmax]

Exactly. Its reversing what people didn't like.

Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo
We talked on @NFLTotalAccess last night about how this isn’t simplifying or clarifying the rule. It’s letting Dez/Calvin/Jesse James catches pass the eye test. There will will be gray area and confusion. But if you ever tweeted “Dez caught it” do not let me catch you griping!

[pbmax]

He bobbled the ball - no control. Not hard. (rude gesture)

So you would overturn Corey Clements' TD catch in Super Bowl?

[Harlan Huckleby]

So you would overturn Corey Clements' TD catch in Super Bowl?

I guess I would.

Even though Corey Clements is something of a hero of mine. He caught shit in college for getting into a fight in a elevator with a Bruce Lee wannabe, all caught on security cam. Clements is seen cowering behind a female rent-a-cop, building security.

Clements could have slaughtered Bruce Lee. (The asian guy took his shirt off for the confrontation, stuck his hairless chest out.) I liked that Clement restrained himself. And the campus buzz was that Clements said something racist to the guy's girlfriend and should be expelled. It was a drunken 3AM college hijinx, and I thought Clements was fine. The girl (hot asian with fuck-me outfit) was squeeling with excitement as her boyfriend defended her honor. Beautiful scene, hollywood ready.

Afterwards, you see Clements and Bruce Lee's best friend embracing - no harm done. Good clean racial fun.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'd have to look hard at the replay of Corey Clement's "catch" maybe it did have clear control.

It is always going to be hard to know whether control is established in some cases.

[mraynrand]

He bobbled the ball - no control.

I think that's the correct call. With the stipulation that if called a catch on the field, you really have to have confidence in what you're seeing on the replay overturns it...

[pbmax]

I think that's the correct call. With the stipulation that if called a catch on the field, you really have to have confidence in what you're seeing on the replay overturns it...

I am not in favor of overturning that call. But for the sake of giving refs concrete items they can observe, bobbling is the easiest to spot outside of toe tapping.

[mraynrand]

I guess I would.

Even though Corey Clements is something of a hero of mine. He caught shit in college for getting into a fight in a elevator with a Bruce Lee wannabe, all caught on security cam. Clements is seen cowering behind a female rent-a-cop, building security.

Clements could have slaughtered Bruce Lee. (The asian guy took his shirt off for the confrontation, stuck his hairless chest out.) I liked that Clement restrained himself. And the campus buzz was that Clements said something racist to the guy's girlfriend and should be expelled. It was a drunken 3AM college hijinx, and I thought Clements was fine. The girl (hot asian with fuck-me outfit) was squeeling with excitement as her boyfriend defended her honor. Beautiful scene, hollywood ready.

Afterwards, you see Clements and Bruce Lee's best friend embracing - no harm done. Good clean racial fun.

It's really true that not much of any good happens at 3 AM.

[ZachMN]

Two problems. One. Instant replay. The cameras are too good now and we see things in s-l-o-w motion that at normal game speed seem one way and in slow motion seem another.
Two, subjectivity. Like the legal realm, they are trying to use words to make subjective situations uniform under any and all circumstances- “Words are but symbols for the relations of things to one another and to us; nowhere do they touch upon absolute truth...." -Nietzsche.

Give the refs or the death star the ultimate authority on the really gray plays and get on with the game.