"Packers Attack CB but Neglect Outside Pass Rush ""

[mraynrand]

Whatever happened to Quentin Rollins? You know, that 2nd round pick the Pack invested in 3 years ago? Not even a mention. Is he still on the team or do we forget him since there's been so many wasted picks on this position in the recent past?

Way too much draft capital put into this position for such crap results.

Assuming you're right, the backend was in terrible shape. So your conclusion is that they should draft elsewhere then, right?

[woodbuck27]

Nah, it's more fun to bitch and moan and never be held accountable.

Shake this Fritz:

Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner -Up and 3 X 3rd Place.

Some of us actually do know what we're talking and complaining about.

If you screw the pooch the pooch snarls.

[gbgary]

i think they thought cb and wr were the biggest problems areas. wr's are old (jordy/cobb) and poor quality (everyone except allison). cb's are old (williams/house) and poor quality (everyone except king). i think that's why they hit those areas hard again (forget the best guy on the board crap as they pretty much ignored most other positions and passed over some really good players). as for the cb's...anderson and jackson will join king, williams, and probably house. the others will fight it out for the few spots left. the wr's...they cut jordy, signed a red zone target in graham, and drafted speed and length. may the best men win.

[texaspackerbacker]

It seems pretty clear that Gutekunst cares more for the testing and the athleticism that it indicates than Ted did. Whether that translates to better quality players remains to be seen.

[gbgary]

It seems pretty clear that Gutekunst cares more for the testing and the athleticism that it indicates than Ted did. Whether that translates to better quality players remains to be seen.

i saw sparq mentioned quite a bit this weekend.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Gute went into this draft intending to shore up our pass defense. You do that by fixing the front 7 and/or the back 4. IMO there were only 3 studs in this draft that could be difference-makers in the front 7: Chubb, Vea and Payne. Chubb was out of reach. Tampa took Vea with the 12th pick. The Redskins took Payne with the 13th pick. So, rather than spend his top pick on a questionable difference-maker like Landry, he decided to spend it on his #1-rated CB. I can't argue with that.

Some will say he should have then spent his 2nd pick on a lesser EDGE talent. Of course that would mean picking a lesser CB talent as well to round out the secondary in a later round.

When Jackson slipped to GB in the 2nd round, the die was cast. Gute saw his chance to shore up the back end of our pass defense with the top two CB's on his board. Really, who can argue with that?

Bottom line is: Yeah, I might have done a few things differently after selecting Jackson, but I'm not going to bitch Gute out preemptively. I'll wait to see if things pan out in September. If they don't, I'll use my fan's prerogative and bitch at him then. LOL

[woodbuck27]

Here is where the Packers FAILED in this Draft.

Packerrats obviously recognized the need in this Draft to have as a FIRST PRIORITY to address Pass Rush.

That TRUTH is supported in out First Round MOCK POLL where the majority voted for EDGE and either Harold Landry or Marcus Davenport.

**A rule of thumb and the Draft is to address priorities and Draft "Inside outside and Front to Back"**

Yes the Packers Roster sucks at the Defensive Backs (S and CB) and have a serious Issue and Offense and WR.

The serious 'NO. 1 Need' was to address a lousy PASS RUSH.

What did the Packer BRASS do:

They traded out of a NO. 14 Slot to what...NO. 27...nonsense !

The Panicked and moved back to NO. 18 and selected a CB.

They then in Round Two doubled down and again selected a CB.

That was 'a DOUBLE ERROR' and **.

Those two errors in Rounds One and Two and trading away their original Round Three Pick at NO.76 were obvious ERRORS.

There could after that be NO RECOVERY.

All the above is predicated on addressing the need and Pass Rush with 'a serious addition in this Draft'.

Obviously Packer GM Brian Gutekunst stayed true to his Board and addressed a serious deficiency in the Packer Secondary or Pass Protection and The CB Position.

Different people and different priorities.

Brian Gutekunst is the Green Bay Packer GM, 'trumps' I'm a Green Bay Packer fan.

[woodbuck27]

Gute went into this draft intending to shore up our pass defense. You do that by fixing the front 7 and/or the back 4. IMO there were only 3 studs in this draft that could be difference-makers in the front 7: Chubb, Vea and Payne. Chubb was out of reach. Tampa took Vea with the 12th pick. The Redskins took Payne with the 13th pick. So, rather than spend his top pick on a questionable difference-maker like Landry, he decided to spend it on his #1-rated CB. I can't argue with that.

Some will say he should have then spent his 2nd pick on a lesser EDGE talent. Of course that would mean picking a lesser CB talent as well to round out the secondary in a later round.

When Jackson slipped to GB in the 2nd round, the die was cast. Gute saw his chance to shore up the back end of our pass defense with the top two CB's on his board. Really, who can argue with that?

Bottom line is: Yeah, I might have done a few things differently after selecting Jackson, but I'm not going to bitch Gute out preemptively. I'll wait to see if things pan out in September. If they don't, I'll use my fan's prerogative and bitch at him then. LOL

Your defense of the Round One and Two Picks has merit.

A lot of this and an analytical determination is depended on a choice of strategies (options).

[woodbuck27]

https://www.packersnews.com/videos/sports/2018/04/29/packers-stay-true-their-board-instant-reaction-packers-draft/562278002/

Aaron Nagler and Ryan Wood give their initial impressions of the work Brian Gutekunst did in his first draft and look at what still needs to be done. Packers News

Comment woodbuck27:

So Rome wasn't built in a day !

The Packers didn't address either Pass Rush nor the ** RHS of their OL ** and are obviously going there ** with RT Bryan Bulaga this Season.

There's still concern at WR.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Gute went into this draft intending to shore up our pass defense. You do that by fixing the front 7 and/or the back 4. IMO there were only 3 studs in this draft that could be difference-makers in the front 7: Chubb, Vea and Payne. Chubb was out of reach. Tampa took Vea with the 12th pick. The Redskins took Payne with the 13th pick. So, rather than spend his top pick on a questionable difference-maker like Landry, he decided to spend it on his #1-rated CB. I can't argue with that.

Some will say he should have then spent his 2nd pick on a lesser EDGE talent. Of course that would mean picking a lesser CB talent as well to round out the secondary in a later round.

When Jackson slipped to GB in the 2nd round, the die was cast. Gute saw his chance to shore up the back end of our pass defense with the top two CB's on his board. Really, who can argue with that?

Bottom line is: Yeah, I might have done a few things differently after selecting Jackson, but I'm not going to bitch Gute out preemptively. I'll wait to see if things pan out in September. If they don't, I'll use my fan's prerogative and bitch at him then. LOL

Kind of funny that some would have been perfectly content if the Packers took Landry at #14 over what Gute did. I would have been okay with it a few weeks ago, but the more I studied Landry the more I would have rather traded down. I still think he's a decent prospect, but he's a bit short for a 3-4 EDGE and I got a bit of a Jamal Reynolds vibe from him. In retrospect drafting Landry at #14 would have been a huge reach.

[woodbuck27]

Kind of funny that some would have been perfectly content if the Packers took Landry at #14 over what Gute did. I would have been okay with it a few weeks ago, but the more I studied Landry the more I would have rather traded down. I still think he's a decent prospect, but he's a bit short for a 3-4 EDGE and I got a bit of a Jamal Reynolds vibe from him. In retrospect drafting Landry at #14 would have been a huge reach.

Yes.

[esoxx]

Assuming you're right, the backend was in terrible shape. So your conclusion is that they should draft elsewhere then, right?

Go back and read what you wrote and get back to me.

[pbmax]

These are rookies. The back end was a cluster. How do you not address a secondary with King as your only barely legit starter (between being a rook and missing games, how much do we really know about even him?), and two barely stop gap guys waiting in the wings in Williams and House? The 3rd round LB may be raw but he actually may play a select few snaps where his speed could be an advantage. Maybe he's never more than that, but that's likely an upgrade over Ryan on passing downs, no? When you have 3 7th round picks, what's the harm in drafting the long snapper. He probably has a better chance to stick than any other 7th rounder. As far as pass rush, if Matthews continues to decline, and others don't mature/step up it will be a bad year in that area. And as night follows day, only 40-50% of these picks will turn out well, and the ones who suck will be endlessly compared to cherry-picked choices from the 31 other teams. That's the nature of this all. But seriously, people's expectations are unrealistic. Like every draft, every year.

Whatever happened to Quentin Rollins? You know, that 2nd round pick the Pack invested in 3 years ago? Not even a mention. Is he still on the team or do we forget him since there's been so many wasted picks on this position in the recent past?

Way too much draft capital put into this position for such crap results.

Couldn't agree more. Same can be said for the entire D side of the ball over the past few years. Datone Jones, Randall, Rollins, HaHa, Adams, Worthy, Fackrell, Thornton, Bradford, etc..

All of these things have gone wrong. Bad draft picks, bad personnel decisions, bad coaching and repeat mistakes. I can excuse a couple of these things. Young players will have trouble communicating on D if its complex and Dom certainly could be. You can be a great drafter and still blow half your draft picks.

Capers and Thompson together could not piece together the right young talent. Matthews is the only guy who shines through. Even Raji got moved through multiple positions. Hawk got moved to a spot he couldn't play well (maybe due to leg injuries but whatever); but Bob Sanders had to go, so OK. Problem was that his replacement never arrived. Injuries took over the team for two years before McCarthy and Ball got that sports science guys to put out that fire.

As odd as it sounds, Thompson was better at finding what Dom needed in FA and UDFA than in the draft. There is seriously something weird about the Packer model in that case. It also makes it REALLY hard to find top end pass rush. Those guys are available as often as you see Brady in the sixth round.

So, temporarily at least, I would endorse anything that differs from the Capers/Thompson approach. FA and Wilkerson perhaps was one, 2 CB who do not meet the traditional Packer CB mold perhaps are another. Finding players to play a scheme should have been a larger priority earlier. We'll see if it works out better now. The weird thing is I don't know if this is actually all that much different than Thompsonism. He signed Peppers quickly. He drafted 2 CBs who had knocks against them. I don't know if we will rue the pass rush we bypassed in this draft. This could all be a comically bad streak.

What I do hold against all of them are letting Hayward, Hyde go. Maybe Burnett too, though age and injury play a role with him. These guys are the rare Packer castoffs that goes right to an immediate starting role elsewhere and that means the Packers missed out. Finding talent is hard, playing the talent you have should be easy.

There will be two more test cases; Randall and Rollins. We'll get to see Randall this year. I have no idea what we will find out about Rollins this year but he has to stay healthy to get an answer.

[woodbuck27]

Whatever happened to Quentin Rollins? You know, that 2nd round pick the Pack invested in 3 years ago? Not even a mention. Is he still on the team or do we forget him since there's been so many wasted picks on this position in the recent past?

Way too much draft capital put into this position for such crap results.

CB Quenton Rollins:

http://www.packers.com/team/roster/Quinten-Rollins/29cfa503-b368-4447-a067-8cdc94ae32c8

He was dressed for 'only' six games in 2017 with 1 Start.

In 3 Seasons and 33 Games Quenton Rollins defended 'only' 16 passes. He had 91 Total Tackles and 3 Picks.

One way to protect against a weal Secondary is to have a solid Pass Rush.

On all accounts it was clear that the NO. 1 Priority and elevating a weak defense was to address Pass Rush. That was ignored and we now have two Top Draft Pics and Rookies at CB.

It's certainly fair to question that Draft strategy of ignoring that NO. 1 Priority and an improved Pass Rush.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-player-feature/article-1/Young-cornerbacks-key-pieces-to-Packers-future/18bf6ab4-7268-4bb4-9cd4-4ec593dad445

Young cornerbacks key pieces to Packers' future

Posted Feb 6, 2017

Mike Spofford packers.com senior writer @MikeSpofford

Comment woodbuck27:

So it's reset and load up again at CB as demonstrated by Brian Gutekunst's first Draft.