"Packers Attack CB but Neglect Outside Pass Rush ""

[wist43]

The thing that worries me about what Gute said was, "... you don't fill holes, you just draft really good football players".

That's TT through and through... The problem is - when you miss on those "really good football players", which is often, you still have the original hole you started with, plus the wasted pick of the "really good football player" that turned out to be really bad.

What next?? Montravius Adams converting to OLB??

It's looking like we changed the name plate on the GM door, but it's largely business as usual at 1265.

[Brandon494]

Josh Jackson had too much value to pass on in the 2nd round and Saints trade offer was also too good to pass up. I trust Pettine schemes to create a better pass rush but he needed better cover guys to pull it off...well now he has them. You also have to factor in how the D-line will be better this year with Wilkerson, improved Clark, and Daniels won’t be double teamed as much. Clay isn’t the player he once was and Perry is injury prone but both are still above average players. Hoping Biegel can provide some depth as well.

[Fritz]

Shake this Fritz:

Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner -Up and 3 X 3rd Place.

Some of us actually do know what we're talking and complaining about.

If you screw the pooch the pooch snarls.

Well, Woody, you know I like to shake your cage, cuz half the time I don't know what the hell you're saying, but I did notice that last year you advocated for Dalvin Cook, who really looked good before he got hurt. So I respect your ability to internet-scout these players.

Me, I just come up with opinions by reading three snippets online and then getting really pissed when the Packerss don't draft the guys I almost arbitrarily latched on to.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The thing that worries me about what Gute said was, "... you don't fill holes, you just draft really good football players".

That's TT through and through... The problem is - when you miss on those "really good football players", which is often, you still have the original hole you started with, plus the wasted pick of the "really good football player" that turned out to be really bad.

What next?? Montravius Adams converting to OLB??

It's looking like we changed the name plate on the GM door, but it's largely business as usual at 1265.

When a GM says he drafts Best Player Available, I assume its BS meant for public consumption. Need is ALWAYS the elephant in the room. You ignore it at your own peril. If you're dying of thirst and you're faced with a choice between water and filet mignon, it only stands to reason that need -- not just the best food available -- is going to play a part in your decision.

First of all, how exactly do you determine which player is "best?" For example, if you had the 1st pick in this year's draft, who do you pick? Who is the BPA? The dilemma doesn't necessarily get easier the deeper you get into the draft. You're always comparing apples to oranges. Moreover, value and need are not exactly objectively quantifiable commodities. Scouts, head coaches and GM's each evaluate need and talent in the context of their own perspective, game philosophy, judgement and biases. GM's are like entrepreneurs in business. They've got to take all the varying possibilities into account and pull the trigger.

Gute was blowing smoke.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Josh Jackson had too much value to pass on in the 2nd round and Saints trade offer was also too good to pass up. I trust Pettine schemes to create a better pass rush but he needed better cover guys to pull it off...well now he has them. You also have to factor in how the D-line will be better this year with Wilkerson, improved Clark, and Daniels won’t be double teamed as much. Clay isn’t the player he once was and Perry is injury prone but both are still above average players. Hoping Biegel can provide some depth as well.

Yup, and it's easier to find a really good situational EDGE pass rusher in a crop of UDFA's, then it is to find a really good CB.

[wist43]

When a GM says he drafts Best Player Available, I assume its BS meant for public consumption. Need is ALWAYS the elephant in the room. You ignore it at your own peril. If you're dying of thirst and you're faced with a choice between water and filet mignon, it only stands to reason that need -- not just the best food available -- is going to play a part in your decision.

First of all, how exactly do you determine which player is "best?" For example, if you had the 1st pick in this year's draft, who do you pick? Who is the BPA? The dilemma doesn't necessarily get easier the deeper you get into the draft. You're always comparing apples to oranges. Moreover, value and need are not exactly objectively quantifiable commodities. Scouts, head coaches and GM's each evaluate need and talent in the context of their own perspective, game philosophy, judgement and biases. GM's are like entrepreneurs in business. They've got to take all the varying possibilities into account and pull the trigger.

Gute was blowing smoke.

I would agree that most GM/Coach speak is BS; however, the GM speak in Green Bay is pretty consistent and backed up by the facts. The Packers haven't cared about "filling holes" since TT took over as GM. They might throw a spitball at a position of need later in the draft, but when they have a chance to fill a hole higher in the draft, they don't think twice about completely ignoring the position for some headscratching pick that usually flames out as a bust.

Case in point would be picking Demarious Randall over Benardrick McKinney in 2015, and then throwing a spitball at the ILB position later in the draft by picking Jake Ryan.

Randall is history, Ryan sucks elephant tits, and McKinney has played at a near pro-bowl level. So the Texans filled a position of need for them and can get on with their lives - while we are still floundering around with 2 critical positions of need on the defense.

2 years later, we have to spend our top 3 picks in the draft on CB and ILB - and the ILB is as likely to be a bust as any player the Packers have ever picked.

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I get the 2 CB picks... not bitching about that.

What I'm up in arms about is completely ignoring pass rush with the Burks pick on. As I said, next year, we're all going to be screaming about pass rush - and we'll likely be playing wack-a-mole in the later rounds again b/c Gute refused to even address the position this year.

Fackrell can't play - yet the Packers told us he was a "good football player" when they drafted him; the Carl Bradford nonsense; Vince Biegel, etc...

Over 10 years of this crap... the list of failures runs very, very long - yet they keep doing the same thing over and over again. I was hoping Gute would put an end to this shit, but apparently not. That is very disappointing.

[Pugger]

Whatever happened to Quentin Rollins? You know, that 2nd round pick the Pack invested in 3 years ago? Not even a mention. Is he still on the team or do we forget him since there's been so many wasted picks on this position in the recent past?

Way too much draft capital put into this position for such crap results.

Well for one he was green as grass coming in with only, what, 1 season of collegiate football? He wasn't a burner and that Achilles injury will do him no favors.

[Pugger]

Gute went into this draft intending to shore up our pass defense. You do that by fixing the front 7 and/or the back 4. IMO there were only 3 studs in this draft that could be difference-makers in the front 7: Chubb, Vea and Payne. Chubb was out of reach. Tampa took Vea with the 12th pick. The Redskins took Payne with the 13th pick. So, rather than spend his top pick on a questionable difference-maker like Landry, he decided to spend it on his #1-rated CB. I can't argue with that.

Some will say he should have then spent his 2nd pick on a lesser EDGE talent. Of course that would mean picking a lesser CB talent as well to round out the secondary in a later round.

When Jackson slipped to GB in the 2nd round, the die was cast. Gute saw his chance to shore up the back end of our pass defense with the top two CB's on his board. Really, who can argue with that?

Bottom line is: Yeah, I might have done a few things differently after selecting Jackson, but I'm not going to bitch Gute out preemptively. I'll wait to see if things pan out in September. If they don't, I'll use my fan's prerogative and bitch at him then. LOL

Yes, Gute could have taken a lesser player in the 2nd round and reached for need but that isn't good draft strategy. Some talking heads are saying Jackson might end up being better than Alexander.

[pbmax]

Josh Jackson had too much value to pass on in the 2nd round and Saints trade offer was also too good to pass up. I trust Pettine schemes to create a better pass rush but he needed better cover guys to pull it off...well now he has them. You also have to factor in how the D-line will be better this year with Wilkerson, improved Clark, and Daniels won’t be double teamed as much. Clay isn’t the player he once was and Perry is injury prone but both are still above average players. Hoping Biegel can provide some depth as well.

I think this largely holds for his first year. He scheme for the Packers and the players in it will be new to film for 4 weeks, probably more. Given some adjustments, it can easily take a year to scheme against his pressure packages.

After that, Packers need pass rush in the worst way. Decent chance Mathews and Wilkerson won't be back, making a poor situation worse.

Right now I am placing a lot of hope with Jerry Montgomery, who I have decided made Kenny Clark a stud.

[red]

The thing that worries me about what Gute said was, "... you don't fill holes, you just draft really good football players".

That's TT through and through... The problem is - when you miss on those "really good football players", which is often, you still have the original hole you started with, plus the wasted pick of the "really good football player" that turned out to be really bad.

What next?? Montravius Adams converting to OLB??

It's looking like we changed the name plate on the GM door, but it's largely business as usual at 1265.

i saw that too and hated it

if youre not suppose to fill holes in the draft, then that means you needed to fill them in free agency or trade for someone.

he didn't

[Pugger]

I would agree that most GM/Coach speak is BS; however, the GM speak in Green Bay is pretty consistent and backed up by the facts. The Packers haven't cared about "filling holes" since TT took over as GM. They might throw a spitball at a position of need later in the draft, but when they have a chance to fill a hole higher in the draft, they don't think twice about completely ignoring the position for some headscratching pick that usually flames out as a bust.

Case in point would be picking Demarious Randall over Benardrick McKinney in 2015, and then throwing a spitball at the ILB position later in the draft by picking Jake Ryan.

Randall is history, Ryan sucks elephant tits, and McKinney has played at a near pro-bowl level. So the Texans filled a position of need for them and can get on with their lives - while we are still floundering around with 2 critical positions of need on the defense.

2 years later, we have to spend our top 3 picks in the draft on CB and ILB - and the ILB is as likely to be a bust as any player the Packers have ever picked.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I get the 2 CB picks... not bitching about that.

What I'm up in arms about is completely ignoring pass rush with the Burks pick on. As I said, next year, we're all going to be screaming about pass rush - and we'll likely be playing wack-a-mole in the later rounds again b/c Gute refused to even address the position this year.

Fackrell can't play - yet the Packers told us he was a "good football player" when they drafted him; the Carl Bradford nonsense; Vince Biegel, etc...

Over 10 years of this crap... the list of failures runs very, very long - yet they keep doing the same thing over and over again. I was hoping Gute would put an end to this shit, but apparently not. That is very disappointing.

After Chubb this wasn't the deepest EDGE class in NFL draft history. From what I'm hearing next year is supposed to be a darn good EDGE class so getting an extra 1st round pick should bode well for us and we can finally fix that position for the foreseeable future.

[Brandon494]

I think this largely holds for his first year. He scheme for the Packers and the players in it will be new to film for 4 weeks, probably more. Given some adjustments, it can easily take a year to scheme against his pressure packages.

After that, Packers need pass rush in the worst way. Decent chance Mathews and Wilkerson won't be back, making a poor situation worse.

Right now I am placing a lot of hope with Jerry Montgomery, who I have decided made Kenny Clark a stud.

Thankfully we’ll have cap room and two first round picks next season to address that issue.

[Pugger]

i saw that too and hated it

if youre not suppose to fill holes in the draft, then that means you needed to fill them in free agency or trade for someone.

he didn't

I thought he tried to address the 2 biggest holes on the D ---> the secondary with those corners in the first 2 rounds and the pass rush with Wilkerson.

[pbmax]

When a GM says he drafts Best Player Available, I assume its BS meant for public consumption. Need is ALWAYS the elephant in the room. You ignore it at your own peril. If you're dying of thirst and you're faced with a choice between water and filet mignon, it only stands to reason that need -- not just the best food available -- is going to play a part in your decision.

First of all, how exactly do you determine which player is "best?" For example, if you had the 1st pick in this year's draft, who do you pick? Who is the BPA? The dilemma doesn't necessarily get easier the deeper you get into the draft. You're always comparing apples to oranges. Moreover, value and need are not exactly objectively quantifiable commodities. Scouts, head coaches and GM's each evaluate need and talent in the context of their own perspective, game philosophy, judgement and biases. GM's are like entrepreneurs in business. They've got to take all the varying possibilities into account and pull the trigger.

Gute was blowing smoke.

Great point.

Woody was quoting NFL.com that put grades into a number with a single digit past the decimal point. It scales to 6 or 7 I believe. Even if the underlying logic of the score has true value, there isn't enough sensitivity to tease out early Round 2 from mid or late Round 2.

Remember those pictures of the Cowboys draft board? No grades, just round values. When they say they go by the board, it means not reaching. But the choice has to come down to need.

[Brandon494]

If someone would have told me before the draft we would draft 2 of the top 3 CBs with our first two picks plus pick up a 2019 1st round pick I would have asked them could I buy the rest of their weed off them. People find a thing to complain about, this was A+ move. We could have gone pass rusher with the 3rd round pick but we needed someone to replace Burnett. Burks won’t play safety but he’ll replace Burnett at LB in nickel and dime packages to cover TEs and RBs. Josh Jones could have been that guy but feel they want to keep him mainly at safety plus Burks can grow into a full time starter at ILB.