"Packers Attack CB but Neglect Outside Pass Rush ""

[woodbuck27]

lets play a fun numbers game, since this thread is doing pass rush vs coverage

SINCE 2014, 4 years ago

we have spent 1 first round pick on a safety (clinton dix)
one second round pick on a safety (josh jones)

2 first round picks on cbs (randall and alexander)
3 second round picks on cbs (rollins, king, jackson)

by my count, thats 7 first and second rounders for our secondry out of 10 picks total (kenny clark, spriggs, davante)

meanwhile at OLB, where the bulk of your pass rush in a 3-4 comes from

we spent a fourth on biegel last year, and in 2016 we drafted fuckerall in the 3rd. those are the only 2 picks in the top 4 rounds that we've spent on OLB since 2012 when we drafted perry in the first. 2 lousy picks in the mid rounds for the most important position in a 3-4, when the 2 starters are 2 of the most injury prone players on the team, if not the league

i don't care how good your secondary is. if a QB has 5, 6 or 7 (which we have seen way too often) seconds in the pocket, he's gonna find someone

Nailed it red.

[mraynrand]

And they have spit on a lot of very good LB's to take slugs at other positions...

To me defense is first and foremost about pass rush... the Packer brass obviously doesn't agree.

I think the former regime thought they had invested enough in pass rush with Matthews and Perry. They also got blown up in the secondary three times (losing Collins, losing Shields, and having Randall crap out) in recent years. There's no reason to believe the new regime doesn't value pass rush over defensive backs. We'll know more going forward, but right now, they're a little hamstrung by bad luck (injuries) and possibly up to three high pick failures (Randall, Rollins, Dix).

I agree that pass rush is more valuable than corners, but you can't get by with crappy corners regardless, and they've just suffered too many wounds at that position - some self-inflicted - to ignore.

[Zool]

Has that ever happened?

Not that I can recall, but the secondary was a disaster. The pass rush was okay. I’d rather they address the train wreck first rather than invest even more in the pass rush.

[gbgary]

Not that I can recall, but the secondary was a disaster. The pass rush was okay. I’d rather they address the train wreck first rather than invest even more in the pass rush.

yup. you keep drafting cb's until it's fixed if you have to...or get someone else's proven cb (but we all know there's a next to zero chance that's happenin).

[Maxie the Taxi]

yup. you keep drafting cb's until it's fixed if you have to...or get someone else's proven cb (but we all know there's a next to zero chance that's happenin).

I see this as an argument FOR signing a free agent. At least a free agent is more or less a known quantity in the NFL. The draft remains a crap shoot. Will college talent reliably transfer to the pro game? If we had signed a free agent or two in 2014 we could have been filling other holes with the draft choices spent on DB's.

[gbgary]

I see this as an argument FOR signing a free agent. At least a free agent is more or less a known quantity in the NFL. The draft remains a crap shoot. Will college talent reliably transfer to the pro game? If we had signed a free agent or two in 2014 we could have been filling other holes with the draft choices spent on DB's.

yup...exactly. even through trades. look at the proven corners that changed hands through trades just this year. boggles the mind why tt lasted as long as he did. gute's first offseason hasn't gone off as well as i'd hoped either. his draft may cause me to change my mind.

[mraynrand]

I see this as an argument FOR signing a free agent. At least a free agent is more or less a known quantity in the NFL. The draft remains a crap shoot. Will college talent reliably transfer to the pro game? If we had signed a free agent or two in 2014 we could have been filling other holes with the draft choices spent on DB's.

Except the pay scales are completely different. And FAs are a gamble too. Also, the real high quality players typically aren't allowed to ever hit FA.

[Joemailman]

By signing House and Williams, Gutey has done what many had been clamoring for TT to do: Sign some mid/low-level veteran FA's so that you're not so reliant on the rookies.

[The Shadow]

By signing House and Williams, Gutey has done what many had been clamoring for TT to do: Sign some mid/low-level veteran FA's so that you're not so reliant on the rookies.

Agree. Very good moves.

[pbmax]

I see this as an argument FOR signing a free agent. At least a free agent is more or less a known quantity in the NFL. The draft remains a crap shoot. Will college talent reliably transfer to the pro game? If we had signed a free agent or two in 2014 we could have been filling other holes with the draft choices spent on DB's.

I think this was the plan. Lot more corners than pass rush on market. But they misjudged the market and the prices took off. They couldn't afford their third big move in FA. Gutekunst said they were talking to all of them but they proceeded past the point the Packer's retained interest.

[Rutnstrut]

I see this as an argument FOR signing a free agent. At least a free agent is more or less a known quantity in the NFL. The draft remains a crap shoot. Will college talent reliably transfer to the pro game? If we had signed a free agent or two in 2014 we could have been filling other holes with the draft choices spent on DB's.

Finally someone else sees how TT ignored needs in the roster to hoard late round draft picks and avoid free agency at all costs. But yeah Ted was awesome.

[run pMc]

Clay will be a 32 y/o UFA next year. They can resign him for less by then, and I would be shocked if they don't make some serious moves to shore up their pass rush next season. Trouble is, what do they do this year? Hope the DL brings it and Pettine can pull it off with smoke and mirrors? I get the draft was not very good for pass rushers and reaching for one is questionable at best. I also get that good pass rushers rarely make the FA market.

I wonder if they pull some kind of thing like swapping a R3 pick for a R5 and a JPP kind of player with a 1-2 years left on a pricey contract another team wants to get out of. Packers allegedly have up to $50M in cap space next year with Cobb, Matthews, etc. expiring. But again, what about this year?

I think the CB's this year will provide depth. Rookies don't often contribute a lot, although GB tends to ask a lot of theirs with the draft-and-develop model.
It's more likely King, J.Jones, Brice, and a resurgent HaHa will help on the back end.

[pbmax]

Finally someone else sees how TT ignored needs in the roster to hoard late round draft picks and avoid free agency at all costs. But yeah Ted was awesome.

We'll see how effective the "training" "mentoring" and "leadership" of the DB vets this year. I suspect it will be better because of new scheme and new talent. But I bet the play is better on the field if those two vets are not on it.

I wasn't sure I noticed a huge effect last year when House was around for mentoring. There are so many teams that are terrible with plenty of vets.

Too often these terms are thrown around by those not in the know to explain things they see. I suspect there is an effect, but its smaller than both the talent of the player and the skill of the coach to get the unit to be cohesive.

In order, reasons to be optimistic about the Packer secondary are:

1. Draft picks
2. Healthy King
3. New scheme
4. veteran depth

[mraynrand]

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Williams didn't make the final roster.

[gbgary]

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Williams didn't make the final roster.

me either initially but after what mm said yesterday i think he's a lock.