Official 2019 Draft Thread

[mraynrand]

Well, if the shoe fits

Dabo Swinney comes around and suddenly Clemson goes from ~top 25 ish program to a big dog right there year after year with Bama? Doesn't pass the smell test. They're obviously paying people big bucks and big drugs.

Programs pay a lot of $$$ for growth hormone analogues that can escape drug test detection.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Well, if the shoe fits

Dabo Swinney comes around and suddenly Clemson goes from ~top 25 ish program to a big dog right there year after year with Bama? Doesn't pass the smell test. They're obviously paying people big bucks and big drugs.

Suddenly? The dude's been there since '08. They went through some growing pains but he was known as an excellent recruiter and produced top 10 classes right out the gate. In college FB, the best recruiting classes tend to win the most games. Hearing him speak, he sounds like an excellent man who has his priorities straight in life.

[Fritz]

Can't the Packers invest in some people who know how to procure only the best performance-enhancing drugs as well as masking them?

Give the new coach the resources he needs to be successful. Think of it like building the Don Hutson Practice Center.

[mraynrand]

nm

[call_me_ishmael]

Suddenly? The dude's been there since '08. They went through some growing pains but he was known as an excellent recruiter and produced top 10 classes right out the gate. In college FB, the best recruiting classes tend to win the most games. Hearing him speak, he sounds like an excellent man who has his priorities straight in life.

He's a great speaker, I agree. I've heard him on the radio a bunch. There is a significant jump from 2012 onward. Do you really believe they're a clean program? I do not. I don't think many are, but I think they are *exceptionally* dirty. Great recruiter, sure, but 5 stars don't just suddenly skip out on blue bloods en mass to go to South Carolina.

It reminds me of Ole Miss. All of a sudden they started landing 5 star players at a higher rate. I would even argue that Clemson has gone far above and beyond what Ole Miss did as far as recruiting goes.

[Cleft Crusty]

Can't the Packers invest in some people who know how to procure only the best performance-enhancing drugs as well as masking them?

Give the new coach the resources he needs to be successful. Think of it like building the Don Hutson Practice Center.

I can offer my services as drug tester, much like the food testers for kings of old.

[call_me_ishmael]

Can't the Packers invest in some people who know how to procure only the best performance-enhancing drugs as well as masking them?

Give the new coach the resources he needs to be successful. Think of it like building the Don Hutson Practice Center.

That man's name was Mike Neal and he got busted.

[George Cumby]

I can offer my services as drug tester, much like the food testers for kings of old.

That means swishing the athlete's urine around in your mouth, I presume.

[pbmax]

Don't think TT ever dreamed ARod would drop all the way to our pick.

Supposedly, in one of their later draft mocks he started to fall so Teddy went back to the film.

But he also said at one point that they stopped doing too many mocks because it was just confirming their perceptions. But I think that comment was post Rodgers draft.

[Cleft Crusty]

That means swishing the athlete's urine around in your mouth, I presume.

You might think that, seeing as I once worked semi-part-time for the Urinal Scented newspapers. But, no.

[pbmax]

That means swishing the athlete's urine around in your mouth, I presume.

Much more advanced now. Just leave it in your basement for 24 hours and see what grows.

[Cheesehead Craig]

He's a great speaker, I agree. I've heard him on the radio a bunch. There is a significant jump from 2012 onward. Do you really believe they're a clean program? I do not. I don't think many are, but I think they are *exceptionally* dirty. Great recruiter, sure, but 5 stars don't just suddenly skip out on blue bloods en mass to go to South Carolina.

It reminds me of Ole Miss. All of a sudden they started landing 5 star players at a higher rate. I would even argue that Clemson has gone far above and beyond what Ole Miss did as far as recruiting goes.

Any proof of "exceptionally dirty"? Didn't think so. He was with Alabama before Clemson, so he already had contacts and helped recruit for Alabama, so he knows how to get the 5 star players. He built an original model for recruiting that even SEC schools want to emulate but can't.

So 3 years after he takes over as HC his team does better? You mean that his recruits are hitting their prime and the team does better? Fascinating indeed. He also brought in innovative OCs and DCs which maximized his players talents. Some may actually call that coaching and good decisions on personnel.

Coach K (while I may not like him) took a shitty Duke program, and made it equal to NC in 4 years, right in NCs back yard. Barry Alvarez took a shitty WI program and turned it around in 4 years. It can totally happen in college sports, you just need the right guy to do it. Dabo is one of those kind of guys.

Do I think there's cheating in college sports? Oh yeah. No program is totally clean. I just haven't seen any proof that Clemson is "exceptionally dirty". In 2017 the WSJ did a "Grid of Shame" which ranks college football programs according to on-field success and degree of shame, which considers academic performance, NCAA violations/compliance record, player arrests and other factors. Guess who was at the top? Washington, Wisconsin, and Clemson. (Ok, it was based on expected performance going into this season and WI fell way short there). https://www.wsj.com/articles/college...ame-1504194945. Also, very similar in the 2016 version as well. So the evidence doesn't support the "exceptionally dirty" label.

[mraynrand]

^^^ CMI prefers Twitter innuendo to facts

[Fritz]

Since this is the draft thread, let me pose this question:

What happens if, sitting at #12, Gute finds the top player on his board to be a quarterback?

And what if our conspiracy theories about Murphy playing his subordinates off each other is at least somewhat correct? Murphy brought LeFleur to GB partly because he needed a new offense Rodgers could be excited about, and partly because LeFleur, as a rookie HC, was okay with Murphy's wanting to keep Pettine as DC.

So Murphy has set this up hoping to use what's left of Rodgers's window, and he doesn't like the idea of using the #12 overall pick on a quarterback when there are pass rushers or offensive tackles or speedy big tight ends sitting there.

What does he do? What does Gute do? What would you do?

[call_me_ishmael]

Any proof of "exceptionally dirty"? Didn't think so. He was with Alabama before Clemson, so he already had contacts and helped recruit for Alabama, so he knows how to get the 5 star players. He built an original model for recruiting that even SEC schools want to emulate but can't.

I mean, nobody had concrete proof of USC, Arizona, Louisville, etc until they did. It doesn't take a lot of googling to read up on recruiting battles for top prospects between SC and Clemson, Hugh Freeze and Clemson, etc. There are lots of anecdotal stories out there. Players changing their mind$ at the very la$t minute (cha ching). It smells - just like USC did.

To me, the most telling thing is the just looking at the draft. Suddenly all of these Clemson bros are going top 5, top 10, etc. Where did those homies come from? Sort of reminds me of Maryland in the early 2000s. $omething in the water up there in Maryland, or maybe in the syringe, I'm not sure. Probably a little bit of both.

So 3 years after he takes over as HC his team does better? You mean that his recruits are hitting their prime and the team does better? Fascinating indeed. He also brought in innovative OCs and DCs which maximized his players talents. Some may actually call that coaching and good decisions on personnel.

Why be a dingleberry? Of course this is possible. I am saying look at historic records on a long term timeline. There is a significant, unprecedented up swing. Is it all the coach? Well, maybe. But how often has that happened in recent history where it wasn't dirty? Again, not evidence, but it smells.

Coach K (while I may not like him) took a shitty Duke program, and made it equal to NC in 4 years, right in NCs back yard. Barry Alvarez took a shitty WI program and turned it around in 4 years. It can totally happen in college sports, you just need the right guy to do it. Dabo is one of those kind of guys.

Duke was a different era. Alvarez never took UW to the heights that Clemson is at. You serious right now? That's a piss poor comparison. If Bucky went to 4 National Championships in 5 years a few years after Barry took over, then I'd listen.

Do I think there's cheating in college sports? Oh yeah. No program is totally clean. I just haven't seen any proof that Clemson is "exceptionally dirty". In 2017 the WSJ did a "Grid of Shame" which ranks college football programs according to on-field success and degree of shame, which considers academic performance, NCAA violations/compliance record, player arrests and other factors. Guess who was at the top? Washington, Wisconsin, and Clemson. (Ok, it was based on expected performance going into this season and WI fell way short there). https://www.wsj.com/articles/college...ame-1504194945. Also, very similar in the 2016 version as well. So the evidence doesn't support the "exceptionally dirty" label.

Again, there isn't concrete evidence and proof until there is some. It goes from white to black really damn fast. There are lots of rumors and it takes basically no effort to investigate them and see for yourself. If Clemson passes the smell test to you, then hey, by all means, we'll see how it shakes out in a few years, but to me, it absolutely does not pass the smell test. Too many rumors, too many top prospects suddenly spurning other blue blood programs at the last minute, etc.

My gut feeling is Clemson is one recorded phone call away from the whole thing being blown up. I mean, they have a rich track record of cheating and being stripped of titles. There's precedent there.